Hey all, if you haven't seen "Religulous" yet, would you do me a favor and go this weekend? I swear not for me, I am honestly not interested in ever making a movie again - I'm like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon, "I'm too old for this shit." But this one I would like to do well so America gets it that there's a lot of people who at least would like this to be a subject we can talk about and debate. And, its a hoot! I've gotten so many e mails and texts from people who say "I just saw your movie, and at the end everyone applauded. " Something must be going on here, how many times do you see that in movies these days?
Thank you!
1,748 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 801 – 1000 of 1748 Newer› Newest»Well cheryl,
I do know that if they (the writers of the Bible) were alive today? Hollywood would be knocking there doors down hiring them as writers to make movies!
Ok, all of us who have the most difficult anatomy imagined, just "poof" appeared one day.
If someone more powerful than us that gave us miles of intestines, didn't do this? Then who did?
How do you explain it? A monkey didn't do it cause where did he come from?
WHAT IS THE DANG PROBLEM BELIEVING IN SOMETHING GREATER THAN YOURSELF?
WHAT IS THE DANG PROBLEM BELIEVING IN EVOLUTION?
WHERE DID THE MONKEY COME FROM?
microbes
good night, don't let the truth frighten you
microbes?
I have heard it all now...lmao!
Okay, where did the microbes come from?
Cheryl, I agree with you that there are people who do stupid and untrue things with the word of God, but that doesn't mean it isn't the word of God. The Bible is not only history, it is etiquette. It teaches people how to be more human. Maybe if more of you bothered to actually read the whole Bible instead of just parts, you could see the whole picture. Ofcourse people also misunderstand the meaning using this as an excuse to say it has no Divine Author except men (All 40 of them) who all conspired throughout a period of 1600 years to make a book that would shake the WORLD!!! People who use this litany as an excuse to stop believing just don't care about ALL THE FACTS. The Bible stands up to history, science, and congeniality. All of its 66 books are put together in such a harmony that no 40 some odd men could ever have dreamed would fit together so perfectly. But it does. The Founders of this nation, Ghandi, Darwin, Neuton; all of these people found the Bible to be incredibly relevent to their current day and it profoundly shaped their lives. The Bible has been tested in all respects. It is the most widely distributed book ever to be published in all the world's history. You can't just take it's sayings lightly or write it off as a book of fairy tales. Too many people's lives have changed because of it in the last 2000 years!!
The more and more people try and disprove the authenticity of the Bible the more and more they find they are wrong.
Oh but the Science. It is soooo infallible, soooo dependable, sooo much more fun. And Miracles are sooo impossible. How could God ever talk to someone inside their head? That's impossible! They say. But I think people who lived hundreds of years ago would have believed a person could be on one side of the world and have a conversation with someone on the other side. They would have seeing people on TV was impossible. They never would have believed that buildings can fly (airplanes are big rooms with wings). But we all know these things to be reality today. So don't be so sure about what impossible and whats not. To me believing in God is fun. Believing that all the order and beauty in the universe and in the microverse did have someone intelligent (God) behind it. Some 'fairy tales' are real. Sure, in our present reality it is impossible to physicaly prove that God exists. Sure he holds himself aloof and does not associate with the people of Earth the way he used to right now. But, those still not sure about whether they should believe in God or not should consider that He might have reasons why he hides himself from us. If aliens were real and they knew about humans they would want to stay as far away from us as possible. Why? Because we lie, cheat, steal, murder, hate without cause, etc. People assume, they spit in the face of reason, cover over their mistakes and then wonder why someone who is supposed to be as Holy as God is doesn't contact them! Faugh! People would rather search endlessly throughout a universe so vast that they couldn't possibly make any realy progress in their lives or the great great grandchildrens lives than give God a chance. God?! That just nonsense!!
I just think people need to lighten up!
When we die, we will learn the truth, unless of course we are just dead as a doornail and don't know any different.
That being said! What do we have to lose?
Your either "dead" or being happy with no tears or fears.
It's up to you...that's all that needs to be said.
Saw (and it's many sequels) or Forrest Gump? Which do you prefer?
BILL MAHER!
I am posting this on all your blogs with the hope you will see it.
PLEASE DO A SHOW ON HOW OUR CONGRESS AND SENATE ARE SET FOR LIFE WITH SOCIAL SECURITY AND RETIREMENT.
They receive almost 100% of their salary.
I THINK IT'S TIME WE, THE PEOPLE DEMAND DIFFERENTLY!
At least we are working hard for it.
Definitely Forrest Gump, movies like SAW just glorify killing too much.
Bret said...
Definitely Forrest Gump, movies like SAW just glorify killing too much.
My point exactly! Do we want to continue killing ourselves or open a box of chocolates not knowing what's to come?
People on this blog want SAW, that way they feel they control the rest of us!
It is true. Wilber
They say that religion is the cause of all violence while displaying a real hunger for it themselves. People are the cause of all violence not God.
I almost wish we had evolved from animals. The animals only take as much as they need. They know how to work together to best satisfy their needs. And when they kill it is out of a real need for survival. People do just the opposite of all that and then say that they are enlightened,what a joke.
Bret,
I so agree with you. I just don't understand why you/we get attacked but yet, your message is filled with compassion, not hate and their's always has hate attached.
I do display a teenie weenie bit of hate but, the love is deep down.
:) especially for mikey and clydene!
I know my dog bites me, he thinks I'm wrong in scolding him (verbally - I LOVE MY ANIMALS - ALL 5 OF THEM) and then I compromise with him/them and, all is great with the world. Dang humans!
Wilber, that's so true
The reason why they hate so much is simple. If you take a quick look at history, the hatemongers are always the ones with the cracked out ways of thinking. Racists for example. It doesn't matter how much love you show them. They hate to be loved by YOU. Absolutely anything you say is labeled as "less" than whatever standards they think they uphold. What drives this is fear. Fear of what? I have absolutely no idea.
:) "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering"
Yes Bret, and I know that Bill Maher is the best at bringing out the hate and the hurt in people.
That's his message. Hate what you don't agree with, hurt the ones that disagree.
H/H.....Bill Maher's new Motto!
but some Playboy Bunnies might interpret it to mean Hot/Horny whatever.....lol
lol
Either that or hoop n holler
tee hee
You know what your right about Bill. Because he is a comic. He's supposed to make people laugh no scorn. He's more of a cynic. I emailed him on myspace and told him that judging from his general attitude deep down he seems heart broken and angry
Anyways...I thank you wilber for coninuing to post on this site even though you may get hated on for it.
I must retire for now, but I hope to blog you later.
TTFN
Bret,
Bill will never grow up and realize we are one World! He is just another Michael Moore, etc who feeds on demeaning and degrading ordinary people who actually work hard for a living...i.e. Joe the Plumber to make himself look bigger and better.
A guy who did nothing but ask a question but, now he is the scum of the earth.
The Bill Maher's of the world are a sad and pathetic testament to what the world is really about.
Nite Bret,
Granddaughter's birthday tomorrow so yes, I'm out.....
And, I'm not going anywhere...hate or love...I'm here!
I am so glad we live in a country where we can watch what we want on tv ,because Bill maher is not only a waste of air time,but he does'nt know his brain is the size of a peanut.Hey Bill your clueless.
My question to Bill is, and meaning no disrespect but:
Do you believe your Mom is watching over you now or just gone?
Again, I mean no disrespect but, how do you feel now?
Maybe the answer to your questions lie in that!
Wednesday, 27 August 2008
PROPHET DREAM AHMADINEJAD
ALPHA LETTER SUSPENDED REORGANIZATION OF ADMINISTRATORS ACCORDING 1000 year Kingdom rules are
The King of Kings & His rod of iron, or whomsoever he may deputize, shall be concerned with the implementation of the judicial verdicts. :The King shall undertake to rule according to the rulings of Hidden Book of Revelations and shall supervise the application of regulations, and the State's general policy as well as the protection of the country.
THE KORAN HISTORICAL BOOKS LETTERS FROM HEAVEN TO RELATIVES OF CHRIST TALKING OF THINGS CHRISTIANS HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR BACKGROUND IN.
Sharia IS AS CORRUPT AS THE TALMUD OR CANNON LAWS OF ROME IGNORE IT.
Received a prophetic dream about Ahmadinejad last night.
In the dream some things God made clear.
First I was giving money to Ahmadinejad, at first he did not want to accept it.
I insisted he kept saying No I owe you so much!
Told him God instructed and he accepted the 11 dollars.
Next the 11 dollars was tied to 11 series of six numbers total 66 numbers.
Christ told me the 11 dollars was the authority of the 11 apostles in Heaven doorways from heaven (12 doorways or gates) each with an apostles’ name on it.
The series of 66 numbers is the 66 books of the King James Bible.
Ahmadinejad was living in my house. He was a house guest. Very humble home common such as a poor person would have.
When I awoke could not go back to sleep it was dawn.
Went out and God explained I already wrote out the meaning of the dream just go to my e mails and find it.
Christianity did not receive a book from Allah as did the Prophet.
Until April 4, 2002 when God took Edward called Enoch by Christ into the Holy of Holies and restored the Hidden Book of Revelation (ch 10 vs 10)which fits into all 3 Religions
Until then a collection of 66 books which was a record of the dealing of God with mankind throughout a period of time exceeding 5000 years.
This collection of Historical books is also greatly incomplete acknowledged by John the Apostle at the end of his Gospel.
Moses received the Torah from God but it was only ten words which was then interpreted and transcribed into the first five books or Pentateuch
In addition to this the transliteration of those documents was “Bastardized” by the Roman Church
To fit into a demonic teaching called the Trinity.
That said the principals upon whom the 66 books are based are important for the underpinnings of all the religions of the God of Abraham.
The Prophet Mohammad needed the illumination from the 'The People of the Book' in order to look for God to begin his spiritual quest...
Trying to separate the Koran from its foundation makes as much sense as building a house starting with the roof.
The Koran itself derives its standing in the greater older writings given to the Prophets which came before Mohammad.
I can truly say this to any Islamic. [2.135] and they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (We follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists. And I would be cursed if I did not tell you what happened to me April 4, 2002 [2.140] Nay! do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Yaqoub and the tribes were Jews or Christians?
Say: Are you better knowing or Allah? And who is more unjust than he who conceals a testimony that he has from Allah? And Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
This is God's final message to humanity. All of God's prophets have come to this world, and all the scriptures have been delivered.
The time has come to purify and consolidate all the messages delivered by God's prophets into one message, and to proclaim that henceforth, there is only one religion acceptable to God,
'Submission' (3:19, 85). 'Submission' is the religion whereby we recognize God's absolute authority, and reach an unshakeable conviction that God ALONE possesses all power; no other entity possesses any power that is independent of Him.
The natural result of such a realization is to devote our lives and our worship absolutely to God ALONE.
This is the First Commandment in all the scriptures, including the Old Testament, the New Testament, and this Final Testament.
USING THE KORAN LOGIC MAKES THE HIDDEN BOOK THE MOST POWERFUL SCRIPTURE ON EARTH. ALSO IN THE KORAN IT WAS PROPHESIED I WOULD COME BEFORE TELLING OF THE END OF THE DEMONIC CONTROLLED WORLD.
http://antichristbush.blogspot.com/2008/08/anti-christ-bush-knows-i-come-from-god.html
Hi Bill. I am your fan from Indonesia. I'd love to see your movie but I dont think it will be here. The goverment will not let your movie shown here hahaha!. btw, I watched you at Larry King the other night after Obama won the election. You were so cool, funny, smart and thoughtful as always!. I always wonder, why are you so afraid with religion?. I mean believing in a religion does not mean one loose the freedom to think and question about the originality and purity of life, God or any logical sciences. I am my self a moslem but I dont feel like I have no freedom to decide anything for my life. I value and keep my religion to my self. I believe in it. I think you need to study all religion that exist in this world, I am sure you change your mind. Not because what you read but the logical aspects you will find in them are so suited to your inteligent and thoughtful mind. You will never know the truth if you never brave enough to study them, to open all of the holy books, to connect them with history, human civilization, science and current affairs. I support your creativity, always!. take care
Religulous is a great movie, because in the end Bill Maher pretty much leaves us with some open ended questions about religion.
Seen the movie twice now, because I have been dragging friends to see the movie. It is SUPER FUNNY without really poking fun at Religion, Bill Maher allowed the religious fanatics to make some of the funniest comments in the movie.
I loved the old priest in front of the Vatican. He was so, what are they going to do to me? I am old. Thus we got a frank discussion about some topics that we probably would not have gotten from someone who was worried about being de-frocked
For me, I would have liked to see Bill Maher spend two hours on each religion, and have sort of a PBS Special on the TOP 10 Religions in the world. Sort of a Michael Palin on religion from pole to pole.
It would have also been nice to see more information on Islam, since American's are so afraid of this religion. It is the fastest growing religion right now. If you look at the figures on the website below, you will see some old figures, but it is sobering to see that it grew 235 Percent in the last 50 years as opposed to Christianity at 47 Percent.
http://www.islamicweb.com/begin/results.htm
Remembering something from college that one of the largest growing groups was Muslims in China, the Western border area, near Russia. My professor said he felt that there was a gross underestimate of Muslims in China. It doesn't look like the BBC or the CIA agree either. He said he felt between Russia and China in this border region there were over 200 million Muslims, when you consider that the US is about 305 million, give or take a few million. Must get the CIA Fact book.
Anyway, if you have seen the movie once, you might consider seeing it again. I was laughing so hard the first time, the second time I did catch more, and I wanted to see more.
Hope you will have an expanded version with out takes and more interviews on the DVD. Looking for the release date for this? Say Easter? :)
Goddamn Bill Maher for making this movie before I had the time, money, and resources to do so myself.
I am a life long skeptic, and Mr. Maher has managed to sum up pretty much everything I have ever thought about religion since I was 5, in under 2 hrs.
The best part? Bill didn't just make a movie about how ridiculous religion is for the sake of laughing at the sheep, this film is a call to action.
Mr. Maher brilliantly points out the blatant threat associated with pledging blind allegiance to any faith. Would anyone love America as a country if the basis for citizenship was unquestioning allegiance to the government? "We're doing the right thing, have faith"
I live in Oklahoma... God I hope as many people see this film as possible. So, so important. I already do my best to encourage critical thinking in as many people as possible. Not just about religion, but politics and everything else. I plan to do my best to get as many people exposed to this film as possible.
Guess I know what I'm getting everyone for Christmas!
I just found out it's playing in Birmingham finally! Yippee!!
Oh, and Bret/Wilber... Congrats on reinforcing every point that Bill makes in the movie.
Especially Bret:
"But I think people who lived hundreds of years ago would have believed a person could be on one side of the world and have a conversation with someone on the other side. They would have seeing people on TV was impossible. They never would have believed that buildings can fly (airplanes are big rooms with wings). But we all know these things to be reality today."
Yes Bret, and these are all things that were gifted to us. Directly from God himself. Miracles! Oh, no wait, these are all scientific advancements... Great argument against science Bret! You are absolutely right! Hundreds of years ago, people needed God to explain the unexplainable. There was a time when suggesting that the sun was the center of the universe would have landed you on a burning stake. Today, science has unveiled many things that used to simply be attributed to God, and it will continue to do so with scientific progression.
This is great too:
"Faugh! People would rather search endlessly throughout a universe so vast that they couldn't possibly make any realy progress in their lives or the great great grandchildrens lives than give God a chance."
No progress... right Bret. Just like you said above about the phones, airplanes, and television, all of which were created within the span of a single century. No progress at all...
Why should we search throughout an endless universe for real, palpable answers? It's so much easier to just believe whatever your pastor tells you!
Here's another one I really like:
"He might have reasons why he hides himself from us. If aliens were real and they knew about humans they would want to stay as far away from us as possible. Why? Because we lie, cheat, steal, murder, hate without cause, etc."
Hey Bret... is your God the divine creator? Is he also omnipotent? Then aren't we so corrupt because HE made us this way? If he doesn't want us to be so fundamentally flawed, why doesn't he change us instead of just hiding? These are basic questions that you would ask yourself in any other situation! But you need religion so badly that you are willing to suspend rationality, and drum up bogus statements that you know to be inadequate explanations, like the one above (I will do you the courtesy of ignoring the aliens comment).
Religion and faith have their benefits. No doubt. It has been proven that religious people have less stress in their lives. This is because they are able to dump their problems into the hands of a deity. A higher power, who never really takes care of any of your problems; but you can always find a way to rationalize. "Well, I guess God wants my 5yr old to have cancer. He is testing me" or my personal favorite, the fail safe, "the lord works in mysterious ways"
That's why toddlers get terminal illnesses. That's why thousands of innocent children are starving to death and AIDS is rampant in Africa. That's why people are allowed to be raped, murdered, and tortured. Because the lord works in mysterious ways.
I can see where it could be addictive. I am just so addicted to rationality and the critical thought process that I cannot bring myself to do it. No matter how hard I have tried in the past, I have never been able to force myself into blind faith.
Dear Darren
You want it both ways. You would like to say that you don't believe in God, but then you want to blame him for all the bad things that people do. Anyone can rationalize their actions, but it takes a real thinker to accurately evaluate our troubled times and then come away without a sense of object fear. Mr. Maher is selling fear in order to prove a point. All of you are just so scared that a bunch of crazy religious people are going to end the world. Instead of searching through knowledge and applying it to reality. The Bible foretold that the world would do this. It said that people would be faint out of fear. But it also told us not to fear because all of these things must take place. Just as I spoke to Wilber, you take absolutely anything I say and use it against me instead of trying to prove your side of the arguement. This is the same strategy that lost McCain the election. It isn't a good arguement at all, it lacks substance. I don't just believe what anyone tells me. I study and meditate and am able to conclude that the worlds behavior has been foretold. They do exactly as the Bible said they would. You can shoot back some half baked rebuttle of that, but unless you have actually searched for the truth, your arguement cannot hold up to a feathers weight of opposition.
Also when I was speaking about not making any real progress, I was talking about these evolutionists ceaseless search for life throughout the universe. The only reason why life can exist on Earth is because of a long list of factors that could not possibly be left to chance. We live just the right distance from the sun, in just the right solar system (Every solar system they would find would need a Jupiter sized planet to block most incoming and life threatening comets), in just the right galaxy (Our Galaxy must be the kind that looks like a disc otherwise the stars would be too clustered together and gravity would be out of control), on just the right part of the galaxy (Our Solar system just happens to be near the edge of the Milky Way insuring that our sun would not have to battle with other stars gravity because this also would negate all posibility of life, in just the right cluster of galaxies, etc. I could go on. Also the planet that these scientists are looking for has to spin at just the right speed so that the planet doesn't get too hot or too cold for too long a time. I'm tired of writing. All of these factors came about by chance? Give me a break!! And don't even get me started on how life began, it isn't an arguement you could win.
Bret, Bret, Bret
Not only Jupiter, but the Asteroid Belt provides a protective layer between us an oncoming comets and other asteroids. Of course, according to calculation of planetary orbit through Bode's Law, there should be a planet where the Asteroid Belt is currently located. As we can see from the scaring on the Martian planet, some type of cosmic calamity occurred in the past which took the planet that was in orbital placement between Mars and Jupiter and made it into the asteroids we see today.
So it isn't just Jupiter, but the Asteroid Belt is also providing what I call the CANDY SHELL that protects the earth from other cosmic activity that would vaporize our planet.
:)
Thanx Lilith
Just like I said, I could have gone on with more factors.
Also scientist have a hard time theorizing how our Moon came into being. We need the moon too. Haven't you ever wondered how it just so happend that the size the earth moon and sun appear is just the right size needed to dazzle us with things like solar and lunar eclipses? You can think of that as another factor if you like Darren
Thanks Bret, Bret, Bret,
You should read other things too.
You should read the Book of Enoch which was found by James Bruce in Ethiopia.
Also Enuma elish and Athrahasis make for great reading as they were written thousands of years before the Bible. Oddly enough, when the US invaded Iraq, Iraq being the land of BABYLON, which was 55 miles from Bagdad. WE raided the MUSEUM in Bagdad, and got more than the naked pictures of women tied to rocks that Rowena painted. I have always wondered why the US military decided to destroy or "confiscate" all those antiquities in Bagdad.
Lilith
What is the book of Enoch? Wasn't Enoch a character in Genesis of the Bible? Also does the book of Enoch teach about a monotheistic god like Yahweh or Jehovah? Just Curious
All I can say is WOW, Clydene. You're either a movie critic or a Muslim critic. Either way, you appear to know your stuff. No comment on whether or not God exists or has created all this mess. The world, maybe, but no one, no spirit, no way, could create all this supposition. If we did create God, who is WE? Janice. What an artist!
Bret,
1)I do not want it both ways. You do. That was precisely my point. I don't blame god for anything. I would have to believe that an anthropomorphic god figure existed in order to place blame on him. I believe in no such thing.
You on the other hand, believe that he exists, is omnipotent, AND all loving, yet for some unknown reason allows all of the horrible things I mentioned to occur in the world which he created, and maintains total control over. That, my friend, is wanting it both ways.
You cannot reconcile an all loving god with an omnipotent god. If God is both all loving and all powerful, then there should be no evil in the world. One or the other. Can't have both without copping out and saying, "well the lord works in mysterious ways!"
2)What Bill Maher does in the film is not fear mongering. Fear mongering suggests that he is hyping an illegitimate threat. The threat of ideologists committing insane acts in the name of whatever they believe, religion or otherwise, is very, very real. As we have seen throughout history.
I.E. the crusades, the inquisition, witch trials, multiple holocausts, etc.
Maher points out that with the proliferation of nuclear armament, it is only a matter of time before someone drops the bomb in the name of their ideals. He also makes the point that a religous ideologist may be more likely to do such a thing because of their beliefs. I.e. "The world was given to man by god, so we can do whatever we want with it," or "Ending the world wouldn't be all bad, because I know I am going to heaven."
Rationality, logic, and a good look back at history leads us to these fears.
Fear of the unknown leads people to religion.
P.S. per your comment:
"Also when I was speaking about not making any real progress, I was talking about these evolutionists ceaseless search for life throughout the universe"
Right, no progress there either...
Man on the moon
Water found on Mars
Human genome project
Etc...
Oh, but don't get me started on evolution, that is an argument you will not win.
I don't know maybe you guys are right. The earth is 5K yrs old, we are all descended from two people, (one of whom was made from the rib of the other, unless that is, you consider the story of Lilith which, like so many other stories, was intentionally left out of the final copy by misogynistic men); oh, and dinosaurs are some sort elaborate hoax designed to fund museums.
The end point though Bret, is that even if you could prove that a some intelligent higher power were at work, you would then face the task of proving that it was YOUR higher power and not one of the other hundreds of religions.
Lilith,
Not sure where you are getting your info about B-dad, but I was there, and we were making quite an effort to protect all of those artifacts. Whether they were later brought back to the US and burned in some secret bunker in the Nevada desert, I cannot say; but the idea that soldiers were going around Baghdad destroying priceless artifacts from one of the earth's first civilizations is inaccurate.
Darren
Not critising anyone. I followed this because I have met Rowena several times and asked her husband about the paitings they found in Saddam's compound.
The other information came from an Archeologist I know who was going to do a dig in Iraq, but didn't becaue of the war. We followed the story of hte man who shipped artifacts back to the US, but more importantly, there is a lot of stuff not accounted for, which as you said may have been secreted away to some place in Nevada. Wonder where that could be? The clay tablets would be useless to anyone except an archeologist.
There is a lot of cool stuff they just found Turkey, the Germans,it was in Last months Smithsonian or this month, don't remember now. It was an 6,000 year old temple of some kind. Cool, it had been buried on a hillside. A German guy found it, and they are excavating it.
All this stuff happening with religous artifacts and the Germans reminds me of Raider's of the Lost Ark. :)
Darren
You conviently forgot to comment on all of the evidence I left you in the post regarding all the circumstances that had to be met in order for life to exist on Earth. You strongly wish to believe that there is no God and so you keep repeating the same useless chants that all of these God hating people keep ranting about. Evolution is a Scientology Religion so if your going to give Maher kudos on denouncing all religion you are a kingdom devided against itself. Once again, all you do is copy and paste bits and pieces of my post without properly presenting any real reason to believe otherwise. All of the positive Maher posts that actually agree with him about "Not Knowing" do just that. They don't know and they don't want to know because they don't want to be accountable to God for anything. They want to worship themselves and are pissed because they don't see a happy ending in their future. Stop rationalizing and start thinking around the whole issue of this something from nothing crap that people like this Rich Dawkins fellow feeds you and you eat it right up without question (because you want to). None of what you have to say refutes any of the truths that I suggest the rest of you evolutionists conveniently try to get around.
Also about the 5000 year old Earth. You were the person who quoted some idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about, I never mentioned such nonsense.
Another thing Darren
You can't say that God is omnipotent and not all loving because you don't even believe he exists and haven't read the Bible. If you did believe he existed you might give the Bible a once over or two and come to a more accurate conclusion.
How can you take a panoramic picture, cut it into a bunch of tiny pieces, glue back together a few pieces that you thought might be pretty and then complain about how ugly the image is that you came up with?
I am sick of reading posts that are full of lies and half truths. Your answers reveal who you really are on the inside. Someone who doesn't really want an answer to all the big questions. Who would rather wait on all of these "educated" men to tell you what you really wanted to hear anyway. The same thing you accuse religious people are. Today you know the truth, you are the blind believer that you hate so much
If these scientists that you all worship are so smart why don't you get them to fix the real problems instead of patting themselves on the back all the time. All the hate, rape, murder, lies, and covering over of mistakes. One for example is pollution. So much for progress! God created a clean and wonderful planet. Since "enlightened" man got his grubby little hands on it many of its animals have disappeared and its waters have been polluted. They even find time to pollute space and then want to use billions more dollars to try and find a way to clean some of it up before the die. Progress. Men on the moon, men on Mars. What did they find ROCKS?!! Progress. What did E= MC SQUARED give us? The Atom Bomb? People don't just have to worry about crazy religious people just throwing rocks anymore now do they? Progress huh? Meanwhile their leaders find more and more ways and reasons to oppress the little people. You know the science god used to get very little attention until it became a multibillion $ INDUSTRY!! Then just when they realize how much they've screwed up the natural order they find time to blame religious people and God for making us so stupid to begin with. Just a bunch of excuses.
Faith is a Killer?
The real killer are all the nuts who just got smart enough to make it easier to kill everybody!
Wow BRet! . . . some really spectacular posts. Absolutely wonderful! Very intelligent. I managed to read most if not all of the posts, quite a few!!!!
Something my therapist once told me. 'Anger is really fear.' So if a person is angry, it is fear they possess but not knowing how to deal with the fear, it comes out as anger. It made me realize that perhaps the angry rude comments we see here are perhaps the result of such fears. And I think Mr. Maher is perhaps as you say fearful and unhappy.
I do not think the Pastor was being disrespectful in his comments or opinions such as I've seen from others in the forum or from Mr. Maher. His reaction was quite normal for someone feeling good decent people of faith are being attacked and unrighteously so. Most people do have an inner desire to worship a higher power and some like to worship objects. It's called spirituality and it should not be ignored.
To address Darren - The Bible never said the sun was the center of the universe but that the earth is a circle and hangs upon nothing. And this was written many centuries before humans thought the earth was flat. Also God did not make the first man corrupt. We cannot attribute the first man deciding to rule himself apart from God's direction as God's fault. He took this course on his own and suffered the consequences of sickness and death for himself and his children. This is not God's fault but man's. God allowed the man to rule himself for a time along with the wicked spirit he conspired with. That is why there is so much evil and corruption in the world until now. However we do not have to worry about man destroying the world by a nuclear holocaust or global warming. God promises "to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." (Rev.11:18) And from the looks of things, hopefully very soon.
I would highly recommend Bret's advice and read the Bible 3-5 chapters daily and see actually what it says. Most people although professing faith in God have not read the Bible for themselves and repeat things they've heard from others. So it's best to research these things for ourselves.
Thanx Janice
You and I know the real source of all backwards thinking and unfounded "truths" (meaning lies), the Devil himself. I'm sure he gets a kick out of Mr. Maher's movie. The fact that so many people are so delighted to hear there is no God is evidence in itself that the Earth is underneath the shadow of the wicked one. He is able to take what is true and twist it just enough to completely bury all traces of reason and objective thought. The fact that so many religions do misrepresent God insinuates that their is no God at all. It's just so sad that the ones who yuck it up are in the majority. (shakes head sadly)
But, to believers of prophecy this sad fact is no surprise. The Bible does talk about "all the shocking things they spoke about His name."
Darren
I just remembered something. All that you were saying about crazy people dropping bombs and stuff. Wasn't it THIS country that dropped the bomb?
So the United States pulls the trigger and then all the sudden wants to deal with all these "terrorists" who may one day find in their hands the super destructive "gift" these brilliant scientists blessed the world with, and do something unseemly. The real terrorist is laughing ruefully at all of his truly blind followers who have to worry now because they have entered into the point of no return OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL.
When's it out in the UK???????
Saw it - it was really good.
There were only about 6 people in the theatre (Hey, it was Texas... what do you expect?)
Still, everyone was laughing.
Greatness!
I had no intentions of leaving a post until I read some of the craziness listed. All I have to add is that, Bret, Evolution (unlike any part of religion) has been PROVEN!!! It's not just a theory my friend. I can't believe with all the knowledge people have today that there are those that still question that!!
Bill- I have seen your film twice already and will be buying it and requiring everyone I know to watch it. You can see after reading these posts that people get so mad just for asking questions! That blows my mind! Nothing else you learn about, believe, or feel would keep you from asking questions and thinking about it rationally. Why is it that religion is so untouchable in that sense? Anyways, well done and I hope this movie inspires more to actually think about religion and ASK QUESTIONS!! If asking questions will make me go to hell, I don't want any part of that God anyways!
Emily
The very ignorance and not questioning things you are being told you are displaying yourself. Who told you that evolution was proven? There are different meanings of the word evolution. If you want to argue that the Earth and species change over time, yes that's true. But to say that everything living evolved from a single cell that evolved into the innumerable amount of complex organisms that inhabit the Earth today is the Core of teh Darwinian Theory of Evolution. Even Richard Dawkins cannot explain how lifeless material became living material. He isn't brave enough to say that he doesn't know, but he doesn't. Nothing has been proven except that animals do make small adaptations like the beaks of finches varying in size and what not. They cannot prove that one kind of animal evolved into another kind because it is NOT TRUE.
In order for even minimal life to appear it has been speculated that you would need at least 250 proteins available. All of those proteins would then have to be arranged in the proper order in order for even the simplest of life forms to emerge. The mathematical probability of something like this occuring by chances is "ruffly 1 in a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion", says Dr. Doug Axe a Molecular Biologist. This is staggeringly improbable! The number is essential ZERO! No proof there.
Hi Emily,
While I don't prefer Bret's disrespectful tone in response to your post, I do have to cofirm he is correct: The Theory of Evolution has not been proven. Otherwise, it would be called the Law of Evolution. Which it isn't, since none of us can "prove" our respective theories.
Some believe without question we magically appeared out of nothing, while others simply cannot allow it to be that simple! The truth may be one of those known explanations, or it could be something that has not yet revealed itself to us.
What I think the more interesting discussion would be at this point is not which "theory" is right, but why is it so important humans have definitive answers? Why can't we be comfortable not knowing yet?
Hey MJ
Maybe I should have said craziness like Emily instead of ignorance. But I still mean well.
I can not reply to posts all day, because I have a job that keeps me from being able to blog for hours, but, MJ, that was exactly the point me, Darren, and Bill Maher were trying to make. Why can't we just say that NOBODY knows the answer?! Bret, you think you know the answers, but you do not. I don't think it is very Jesus like to be so condecending to those trying to seek more knowledge. All we are saying is that we don't know, why is that not ok to say that we don't posess this divine knowledge with all the answers?? And what makes you think that you are so much smater or better then all of us because you believe something someone has preached to you? It is funny how you keep bringing up the fact that we are "fed all this knowledge without questioning it", You are telling me that you didn't go to bible study when you were little and sang 'Jesus love's me" with the other kids, only to grow up thinking the bible was the way and the truth? Well I went to bible study too, however, I questioned it and began thinking about it from outside the box which is what this whole blog is about. You can't tell me what I have and have not done in regards to my knowledge. That is just very condesending and judgmental of you, and not very Christian like.
Bret,
Enjoying the back and forth. I live for this stuff.
Unfortunately, too much homework to write another long rant tonight (I spend about as much time studying science as you spend in church, pre-med student).
Will get back to you in depth tomorrow or sometime soon.
Couple quickies I gotta get in though.
1) As per your accusation that I did not address all of the things that you brought up about how the earth works...
1st off, you have not addressed a single thing I have said either. Post one example of where you have refuted any of my arguments with a rational, logical, counter point.
2nd, here you go:
Okay so the earth is just the right distance from the sun, we have a moon, yadda yadda yadda.
You realize that this doesn't lend to God theory, but to random theory? If God created this world, why did he do it in such a random fashion, when he is capable of simply created a world which doesn't need to be protected from meteors. Hell, if he created everything, he made the meteors he is using Jupiter to protect us from! Seems a bit redundant don't you think? If you are so confident that we are the only life in the universe, why did God need to make the infinitely expansive space that you speak of? So, give me any kind of even semi-rational explanation for why God would create all of this in such random fashion, instead of just making a perfect world that doesn't need to be just the right distance from the sun, in just the right galaxy, etc, etc.
Let me guess, "the lord works in mysterious ways!"
Lilith,
didn't mean to come off as though I were offended by your comment. I was not. There were so many Babylonian artifacts in B-dad, who knows what happened to them all. One of the greatest tragedies of this war. Hopefully the majority will be recovered some day.
Janice_am,
You're right. Bret does sound kind of angry. Most devout people are incredibly frightened by the obvious, logical questions, which so clearly challenge the belief system they model their entire lives around. It's hard being shaken up like that. Like when you found out about Santa.
Socal,
Where you at? My bro just came home from a few years in Point Loma. Gonna miss visiting him out there.
Of course you are right about evolution still being in the theory phase. However, the difference between scientific theory and religious belief is pretty significant.
Although a scientific theory has not been definitively proven, it is founded on scientific fact. Known facts are used to form a theory. Otherwise it would be the religion of evolution. Because in religion there is absolutely no standard. If you believe it, it's true. Period. Christians (and most other religions are very similar in this aspect) have a book which may or may not have been written over the span of a few hundred years, by several different authors, often with contradictory and conflicting views(which is to be expected what with Paul being a gnostic who never even met Jesus, yes Bret, I have read your book). This book has been re-written, re-interpreted, incorrectly translated, and divided it's followers into sects. Oh, did I mention that the primary character didn't even have anything to do with the writing of it?
Pretty hard to compare that to a scientific theory, which adheres to a specific formula of logic and reason, and is firmly based upon known facts.
Oh, and also, there are FACTS, which lend quite heavily to the theory. Explain vestigial organs Bret.
So now you want to be a good Christian?
Good Christians believe. They do not find excuses to just write off God or his Word. They do not just keep doubting God either, just because He is not moving fast enough for them (Darren). They hold on to their faith and continue to wait on God and they preach his Word to all those who walk around in despair and uncertainty. People's prayers DO get answered. God DOES reveal himself to those humble enough to supplicate him. Mr. Maher and people like him only give people more unanswerable questions to contemplate instead of using concrete reasons to convince.
I am sorry if I sounded condescending to you, but the fact is that many of the people who really enjoyed Mr. Maher's movie and posted on this site and all these champions of the THEORY of Evolution have been more than condescending and disrespectful, Mr. Dawkins flat out calling all non-believers of his crap stupid and uncreative!
So don't confuse my response to Mr. Maher's blast of God and the Bible for an excuse to be unChristlike. It's not.
Darren,
Too bad you didn't have time for a long rant .. I'll rest up and look forward to your next post :0)
I'm on the coast in the OC, 60 miles from Point Loma. It's a long swim, but I get down that way as often as possible. If I believed in God, I'd swear this was heaven on earth! It is magnificent.
Cheers ~
Sorry Darren, maybe you got my posts mixed up and I know you have to study. I believe in my post I stated that Mr. Maher was the unhappy person. And yes I was one of the ones that questioned if Eater eggs were in the bible (LOL) and who they lied to me about Santa Claus, the same ones that would whoop my butt for telling a lie. Isn't that somethin. (LOL)
I would like to address Emily. There is no harm is asking questions at all. That's why we have brains.
I think it would be inconceivable for God that made the brain to expect us not to ask questions about our origins and God would not have had a book written to answer those questions about where we came from and why.
The reason it's important to research and come to know or find an explanation for our existence is because of our every existence. At stake is everlasting life and not so much fear of burning in hell which is in reality a pagan concept. There is no concept of a burning hell in the Old Testament and in the New Testament hell has purely a symbolic meaning. Even in Revelation hades/hell is thrown into a lake of fire and death is thrown into a lake of fire. Death cannot be thrown into a literal fire and if hell/hades is fire than why would fire be thrown into fire? It makes no sense. Rev. 20:14
I agree with Bret in many aspects. I'm sure he wasn't trying to be mean to you intentionally. It's just that when words such as crazy or ignorant are thrown around people seem to view them as insults. So it's best not to label anyone or anyone's writings as craziness or ignorance.
Why is the evolutionary theory called a theory? Because that's all it is - A theory, not actual fact. There is not one shred of evidence we evolved from anything, either a fish, monkey or ape. The fossil records are dismal.
The Neanderthal and Peking man were later found by modern techniques to be constructed and outright frauds or diseased bones. The alledged fossil links to man from monkeys, rodents, apes and such proved to be just that - monkeys, rodents and apes. These supposedly links did not sufficiently prove that man progressed from lower forms of life.
The fossil remains of Lucy, the Cro-Magnon man and others which people still hold are the evolutionary links to man have also been shot down. "New Scientist said that "Lucy" had a skull "very like a chimpanzee's." The fossil records discovered so far "have been indistinguishable from those of H[omo] sapiens." (Encyclopoedia Britannica)
For every scientist that says evolution is a fact, there are scientists that say evolution is not. Many scientists are Christians as well. Some scientists may have invented the atom bomb that killed a great number of a population. Yet, they are not scorned as much for their contributions to war but it seems religion is.
At any rate, I know you are busy and I need to be so this is my last post for today.
Still waiting for any kind of specific answer to anything in my post Bret...
I'll check back tomorrow.
Hi Janice,
I'm sorry I didn't read all of your recent posts, but I'm curious why you say Bill Maher is unhappy?
Thanks, MJ
Darren
The fulfilling of Prophecy is plenty of evidence that God exists. Many of the Prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled.
A lot of my favorites are in Daniel. Many archeologists did try desperately to discredit the Book of Daniel but they found out that they were wrong when they came across PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, cuniform tablets that confirmed Daniels account of events that took place in Babylon.
Daniel also expounded upon the succession of world leaders that would rule after the Babylonian and Medo-Persian empires fell. Alexander the Great's peculiar fall from power and the splitting of his empire into four was also prophecied.
This is just a small sample one of the Bible fulfilled prophecies. The most relevent to our time are the prophecies found in the Bible concerning Jesus. Throughout the whole Bible, the significance of Jesus life was foretold.
This is some of the evidence I think of when I wish to explain why I believe as I do.
Darren
How can you call things like all the spacial circumstances needed for life on Earth to occcur, and the 250 proteins needing to be arranged in the proper ORDER random?
Random Order? That's an oxymoron!
Bret, No, I am not claiming to be a good Christian…. That is what YOU are doing.. I am worried that maybe you are reading the bible the same way you read these blogs...not really paying a lot of attention. I am not trying to be a good Christian because I am not a Christian of any kind. It is you that is claiming to be a Christian, and I was commenting on how you are not exhibiting great Christian values by passing so much judgment upon others. The teachings of Jesus were about love and peace and forgiveness, so where do (some) Christians get all this anger, hate and judgment from?
Proponents of the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang both have the same hurtle to leap.
If the evidence produced in their studies suggest that the Universe had a beginning, what caused this beginning?
If the evidence produced in their studies suggest that Life on Earth had a beginning, what caused this beginning?
They don't know
They don't know and as more and more time passes it's becoming more evident that they are dealing with and theorizing about things that go well beyond what they are even capable of comprehending!
However, recent conclusions have been made that because of the obvious Design involved in the structure of the Vast Universe and of the even the most basic Cell points to only ONE plausible answer. It must have been Designed!
Emily
How can the teachings of Jesus mean anything to you if you don't believe he ever existed?
You can't have it both ways!
I never Judged you at all. All I did was respond to your post. If the teachings of Jesus impress you then don't agree with Maher, he knocks them whenever he gets the chance!
I'm sorry, but that is kind of like Charles Duell saying in 1899 that "everything that can be invented has been invented"
Emily said...
Im sorry, but that is kind of like Charles Duell saying in 1899 that "everything that can be invented has been invented"
How so?
I'm asking because I think this post is in response to what I said about Design and Designer
I think the teachings of Jesus are great stories that tell you to be a loving and peaceful person, but I don't need a bible to tell me how to do that. If someone needs a bible to tell them to love one another and to leave a place better then when they found it, then they should read the bible. But they also need to be weary to not take it literally, or it can lead to much hate and judgment.
And just a comment to your 250 proteins theory you keep spitting out, what are the chances of someone surviving 3 days in the belly of a fish? Better chance of that happening then evolution?
The chances are absoluted ZERO
That's why they call it a Miracle!
Miracle: An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God
Yes, it is in response to the comment about the design and designer. You are saying that because the makeup of everything on the planet is so precise that the only explanation is intelligent design? Isn’t that a little arrogant to think that nothing else will be discovered bringing us closer to making the theory of evolution irrefutable?
It isn't arrogant.
People like this Dawkins define the word arrogant when they say all religious people are stupid!
Einstein, Neuton, even Darwin were religious!
No. To say that things have been intellgently designed is not arrogant, it is a theory. A pattern of thinking based on irrefutable evidence.
Emily
Just because some people decide to ignorantly hate or judge people because they don't believe the same thing they do doesn't mean the Bible isn't to be taken seriously.
The Crusades and the Inquisition are perfect examples of how some people decided to take pieces of the Bible and use it in order to benefit themselves.
THEY decided to ignore Gods command not to murder.
If people would really put forth an effort to please God by following ALL that he asks of us no one would be oppressed or killed or raped or impoverished by the worlds standards.
Because we don't live in that perfect world. God saw fit to send us a message! His inspired word. It has survived thousands of years and without its influence the world would be a much more ugly place.
Hi Darren,
Have you read the Quran? Are you aware the followers of Islam believe some of Muhammed's prophecies have come true, and that archeological evidence has been found to substantiate it?
This being the case, how would Christians explain those? And does it call into question that maybe God's story doesn't end w/Jesus?
Do you take the Koran seriously?
MJ, that was a question to Bret. We must of posted at the same time. Great minds must think a like!
Bret,
You could be right, but I always thought Albert Eistein was committed to excepting he did not know for sure if there was a God. Here is a quote from him in the last years of his life:
“I cannot accept any concept of God based on the fear of life or the fear of death or blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him I would be a liar.”
I have not read the Quran Emily
Darren
We follow all of these laws. The Law of Gravity, Electromagetic force, Strong Nuclear Forc and Weak.
Just like we have to follow the laws set like "don't run the red light". Laws are set up in order to safeguard.
But who made the Laws of the Universe? Laws imply Order, Order implies Design and Design...
MJ
Einstein wasn't sure about alot of things.
I'm sure he wasn't sure about where his theory of relativity would lead us. But I'm certain he never imagined it would bring the Atom Bomb to life.
It is not Einstein's fault that we have this super destructive tool to use or not use.
It is the crazy people who took what he gave the world and used it to make another weapon.
Einstein is one Man.
A collection of men all dedicated to a cause can have devastating effects on the welfare of everybody else.
Whether or not they were correct in their assertions can only be judged by the results of their efforts.
Scientists admit that they may not find life in the Universe in their lifetimes.
If we are going to die before we find out whether they were right or wrong, I would rather put my faith in something like the Bible.
It's sayings about everlasting life are moving to say the least. It promises that God will bring to life a new creation, a new world where nobody has cause to weep or pain.
Whats so bad about that?
Bret,
There is nothing wrong with wanting to believe in eternal life and a life force that loves you unconditionally. Emotionally, I understand the seductive nature of these concepts, and know that for many people it's a belief in these things that makes their life more bearable in the here and now.
While I appreciate the gravitation towards wanting those things to be true, intellectually, I can't bring myself to believe the stories of the Bible are literal. And if believing in a virgin birth and a resurrection are required for entry into the kingdom of eternal sunshine, then I'll just take my chances and live an authentic life while I have the chance and except that it ends when it ends. And, I choose to believe that my soul is the imprint that I'll leave on the lives that I touched while here.
bret
While you give up, and put your faith in the Bible, I will keep pushing for the truth. Truth is the ONLY thing scientists are concerned with. I believe a scientist can not do his job having any preconceived ideas. Some may be able to put those beliefs aside, and I don't necessarily doubt them, but we must question everything.
Maybe Eve should have squished the Snake's head into the ground. Maybe Adam should have slapped Eve silly. But he didn't, and I don't believe that fairy tale any more than I believe Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy anyway.
Man's intelligence is an evolutionary trait. It evolved to give the ape the ability to fabricate tools and weapons. And it has made Man the most formidable predator on the planet. Which is why, I believe, Man will never reach a universal Peace. And certainly, no book, with the promise of eternal life will ever be able to still the instinctive desire to hunt and kill that is present in all of us.
I will choose Free Will.
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/rush/freewill.html
I am confused as to all the ones who don't believe that just maybe something greater exist.
If you don't believe in a higher power (except the ape I guess), then why do you think you exist? Also, "if you believe" we evolved from ape, then who created the ape? Oh, I forgot...microbes...lol
And if(?) we evolved from apes (too funny) then why aren't we still evolving from them?
I think I prefer my beliefs over all these other....lmao
I'm pretty sure there will be an attack response from this but, I don't care....still lmao!
Oh, and I heard the "Banana Rocket" is being revealed at the end of the year!
Mike M
If its such a waste of time to search for peace. Then why do we all yearn for it?
Why do I feel sad when I turn on the news?
Why do we want to keep living?
Why do I feel good when I do a good deed and bad when I do wrong?
No animal ever walked an old lady across the street, or took a begger into his home out of pity.
They don't feel pity. When a pack of wolves is on the hunt they leave their weak behind without a second glance.
Darwinism can't explain conscience.
Hitler suggested we try do the same thing amimals do. He embraced Darwinism too! He saw the weak and infirm and the mentally challenged as a nuissance and felt that having them around was slowing the evolutionary process, so he had them all slaughtered in order to "purify" the race.
The sick part about it is that he was able to convince an entire country that he was right.
He also had a peculiar hatred for religion and tried to rid the world of Jews and Christians.
Yes Man is the fiercest beast on the planet. He is too fierce! His greatest hunt involves the slaughter of innocents; the killing of his own kind.
None of the other animals behave this way. Their continuous fight is for survival and preserving themselves.
If we followed the animals example we'd already be in paradise.
Can you imagine if we had all been evolved from house cats?
Wow, that would be a finicky trip!
Bill! You speak the Truth...
You absolutely must check out David Ippolito's website: www.thatguitarman.com -- especially today. (YOU are featured on it! Fun Photoshop pic!). David and you both "get it." Your politics, your humor, your look at life -- this is definitely a talented, bright guy you should connect with.
Just sayin'
GalOnTheGo...
Hard to speak for Bill, but it's the people who want to tell everyone else "how they should live" (broad, baby, broad - see it stretch over the horizon...don't be simple minded when interpreting this)are the ones he fears. They're the dreamers who are grasping at straws, so desperate to find an explanation for "WHY" (and without it, life just isn't worth living....sniff, sniff, pass the kleenex)they are alive, that it stupefies their image in the eyes and ears of those who have to see and hear them. It's that simp-le, but you two will have to mix more magic, I'm sure.
Wilbur, all I want to know is where in the hell can we put you where we don't have to listen to this constant grasping for answers to questions that have none. You don't know how to live and have a time doing it, so you spend all your time wondering hwo it all came to be. It's called living in the past. If we could only send you back there! Oops, I've got the disease.
Wlbur, You're Outrageous! (LOL) and truly a delight along with Bret and Independent.
MJ could you please list the miracles in the Quran that have been verified by science or achaeology? I've read some of the Quran and researched it quite a bit. There are no miralces in the Quran which Muslims say is the exact Word of God. The miracles are in the Hadiths which were made up by Mohammad's followers to in my opinion elevate Mohammad to the status of prophet such as Moses or Jesus, which miracles were signs of true messengers of God. However, Muslims only accept what they consider to be authentic hadiths and not weak hadiths (unauthentic) ['lies']. Among the hadiths Mohammad was sucking the lips of his adult grandson(?), married the daughter of an old woman that was split apart by his followers tying her to 2 camels and Mohammad's young wife thought it was proper to suckle any man that came to her house because of Mohammad's command to foster a non-relative in the house. A far cry from Jesus.
I mentioned I thought Mr. Maher was an unhappy person for he seems to harp on negativity, criticism, arrogance and sarcasm. That sounds like unhappy to me even when he's telling those dry jokes.
I think we're all forgetting something here. The Father of Evolution in an attempt to figure out how God made the world never denied the existence of God. The world just took Darwin's idea of evolution and ran with it. Maybe evolution gives persons the excuse they need to set for themselves standards they feel are right. 'i.e. There is no God, I don't have to do what the Bible says. I don't have to get married, we can just live together or I can have sex what whomever I choose.'
But that's just my theory. The first man Adam certainly set standards for himself in rebellion against God, to rule himself, thereby governing himself and the world at that time the way he saw fit.
I would like to hear more about why people believe in evloution? We believers in God know why we believe in God. So if the evolution people could list your sources of evidence or something you feel in the fossil record supports evolution perhaps we can discuss it.
"Darwin acknowledged this as a problem. For example, he wrote: "To suppose that the eye . . . could have been formed by [evolution], seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."
The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists: "the early theories of human evolution are really very odd, if one stops to look at them. David Pilbeam has described the early theories as 'fossil-free.' That is, here were theories about human evolution that one would think would require some fossil evidence, but in fact there were either so few fossils that they exerted no influence on the theory, or there were no fossils at all. So between man's supposed closest relatives and the early human fossils, there was only the imagination of nineteenth century scientists." "People wanted to believe in evolution, human evolution, and this affected the results of their work."
'Since the fossil record does not show a gradual development of life from one type to another, some evolutionist theorize that the process must have happened by jerks and starts, not at a steady pace.'
"Many biologist think new species may be produced by sudden, drastic changes in genes." (World Book Encyclopeda)
So in light of these comments, what really is there about evolution that science can support?
Hi Janice,
The followers of Islam believe there are scientific, historical and mathematical "miracles" in the actual Quran. That's what they call them, and they differentiate these from "predictions" in the Quran that foretold of future events; The conquering of Byzantine by the Romans, who at the time of the prediction were suffering a horrible defeat comes to mind. I'm sure there is a treasure trove of details on the internet if you search for Miracles of the Quran.
As for the 7 books of Hadith, these are hearsay accounts of events in the prophet's life, similiar to the gospels in the new testament. While these books have fostered scholarly debate, the 2 books Bukhari and Muslim are widely considered to be true by all involved.
As for evolution, no one is claiming proof exsists, which would explain why it's called a "theory". However, the debate continues in the scientific community, and most recently I read an article about E-coli bacteria research and how over 31,500 generations it has mutated in size and shape and is now able to metabolize citrate, which they say would explain how it's been able to survive and thrive. So, naturally, the survival of the fittest theorists are claiming it as a victory in their battle.
My whole point in all of this is that the jury is still out on the truth about any of these things. It comes down to what you choose to believe. Regardless of what camp you are in, you'll find agreement for your point of view. And, for those brave souls who dare to venture outside the safety of their own world view, they will discover just how little they know.
They may also discover that no one religion has the patent on wisdom.
In fact the philosophies of the faiths are strikingly similiar, it's the dogma and the stories that differ and keep us at odds.
Thanks for the chat :0)
Wow, SaveOurselves!
Didn't know you loved me so much!
(blushing :)
meow!
Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of YOU a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God; but keep on exhorting one another each day, as long as it may be called “Today,” for fear any one of YOU should become hardened by the deceptive power of sin. For we actually become partakers of the Christ only if we make fast our hold on the CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT THE BEGINNING firm to the end, while it is being said: “Today if YOU people listen to his own voice, do not harden YOUR hearts as on the occasion of causing bitter anger.” (Israelites made to wander in the wilderness 40 years for puttig God to the test!)
For who were they that heard and yet provoked to bitter anger? Did not, in fact, all do so who went out of Egypt under Moses? Moreover, with whom did [God] become disgusted for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness? But to whom did he swear that they should not enter into his rest except to those who acted disobediently? So we see that they could not enter in because of lack of faith.
Trust in God,
The only savior of the World
To All those who are confused as to Gods intentions regarding the Earth:
Does the existence of wickedness and of suffering prove that there is no God?
Consider examples: Does the fact that knives have been used to murder prove that no one designed them? Is the use of jet aircraft to drop bombs in time of war evidence that they had no designer? Or is it rather the use to which these are being put that is causing grief to mankind?
Is it not true that much disease is a result of man’s own poor living habits and his spoiling of the environment for himself and others? Are not the wars fought by humans a major cause of human suffering? Is it not also true that, while millions suffer from lack of food, there is more than enough in other lands, so that one of the underlying problems is human greed? All these things give evidence, not that there is no God, but that humans are sadly misusing their God-given abilities and the earth itself.
Does God really care what happens to us humans?
Yes, indeed! Consider the evidence: The Bible tells us that God gave man a perfect start. (Gen. 1:27, 31; Deut. 32:4) Man’s continued enjoyment of God’s favor, however, depended on obedience to his Maker. (Gen. 2:16, 17) If man was obedient, he would continue to enjoy perfect human life—no sickness, no suffering, no death. The Creator would provide man with needed guidance and would use His power to safeguard mankind against any calamity. But man rejected God’s guidance; he chose the course of self-rule. In trying to do something for which he was never designed, he has brought calamity upon himself. (Jer. 10:23; Eccl. 8:9; Rom. 5:12) Yet, over the centuries God has been patiently seeking out those who, because of love for him and his ways, are willing to serve him. He sets before them the opportunity to enjoy all the blessings of which they have been deprived because of man’s imperfections and misrule. (Rev. 21:3-5) The provision God made by means of his Son to redeem humans from sin and death is a marvelous evidence of God’s great love for mankind. (John 3:16) God has also set an appointed time when he will destroy those who ruin the earth and will cause lovers of righteousness to enjoy life in harmony with his own original purpose.—Rev. 11:18; Ps. 37:10, 11
Cheryl - nice job. read Dawkins "The Selfish Gene".
Bret: what God are your prayers going to? Apparently the demigod John and Sarah said was on their side (no voters req'd) is not the Supreme Being; or at least the demiurge BO sold his soul to has greater magical powers.
Better watch out dude! you may be going to Hell! Since the internet is based on cosmic principles not described in your Book, that were pioneered by foreigners, maybe you should stay away from it.
Bill, I plan on seeing it this weekend. However, I want you to know that while I enjoy your political viewpoints, you do lump all people of faith into one stereotype with the extreme religous right. The only thing I have in common with the religous right is that we apparantly worship the same diety mentioned in the Bible. However, they take the Bible literally word for word, and the "silent majority of Christians" of which you had a couple on your Real time show recently-Connie Schultz to name one, do not share the religious right's extreme views on abortion, gay rights, ect.. and know the Bible is taken from several different languages and the meaning of words and phrases can get lost in translation. I believe in the separation of church and state and am deeply committed to defending our freedoms in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I was actively helping the Obama campaign the minute Palin was asked by McCain to be the GOP VP. She was an affront to everything I believed in as an American citizen and was frightened by the prospect of her being in charge. I belong to a progressive Christian church in the SF valley and believe there are as many different types of believers as there are citizens. We are not all wackos drinking the same doctrinal Kool-Aid. The extremes of anything are not good, Bill and our nation has been polarized to the extremes by the Karl Rovian type politics of the last 8 years. We need to find middle ground that we can work from. I want to work for a better America too. I was offended when Palin called certain parts of America - Real Americans and better than other parts(veiled racism) is what it was! I defend your right to not believe in God and can respectfully disagree, I just ask you for the same respect.
I do love Real Time, it was entertaining and informative during the campaign season!!
Thank you,
Craig
"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."
God doesn't give you the people you want - He gives you the people you NEED.
To help you, to hurt you, to leave you, to love you and to make you into the person you were meant to be.
I said to myself I wasn't going to post anymore but...
About the gay rights stuff.
I don't want to smear anybody but. How can you be a Christian the definition of which is to follow the Christ and still have doubts about how God feels about gays?
If all the worlds population suddenly turned gay then the human race would be wiped out in one generation!
I am not saying that there are plenty of double standards in the world!
Plenty of people fornicate and adulterate all day long without a second thought but the call themselves Christian as the look down there nose at men who chose to break Gods laws in a different way!
Because of the worlds cracked out views on morals millions of people are infected with AIDS and other troublesome diseases!
Can you not see that God simply wants to safeguard us from calamity?
The Roman Empire fell because it began to rot from the inside. This means the breakdown of the Family Unit.
Sure, if people truly wanted to follow Gods law on homosexuality, a lot of people would either have to abstain from sexual relations or discover the opposite sex.
I can understand though, that a lot of people feel like thats asking too much.
However, churches that are "okay" on evolution and homosexuality are what make it so difficult for people who might really be trying to follow Gods plainly stated regulations. If the Bible tells you not to do it, THATS EXACTLY WHAT GOD MEANS.
If you want to decide for yourself that you want to be with and have sex with anybody you please, fine.
Just don't call yourself Christian, cause your not.
GREAT film.
It had already moved to the Regency Fairfax, home of the bargain matinee...that'll learn you to make a movie about anything as reality-based as Uncertainty.
Bret - You are exactly the type of person that has turned Bill Maher against God by claiming to know that he will condemn them when Jesus himself said not one thing about homosexuality in the Gospels-read it Bret! I am straight, myself and married 22 years and for you to judge me and say I am not a Christian when I show more love and less judgment than you on a fellow human being!! There are so very few scriptures relating to homosexuality and many more relating to adultery, greed and vanity. Jesus had much more to say in his sermons and teachings about fake piousness and people who judge others and act holier than thou (See his confrontations with the Pharisees and Sadducees) for examples. Follow how Jesus treated the downtrodden and the outcasts of his time and that is how Jesus would treat gays who are created by God so why would they be condemned? I think you would be in for big surprise come judgment day!!
Craig
You reacted just as I anticipated.
I am no judge. All I am saying is that the Bible is quite clear.
Jesus did not mention homosexuality but he was quite versed in the law and had great respect for ALL its exhortations.
Exodus, Leviticus strongly warn Gods followers not to lie down with one from his own sex. They were condemned to death. Along with murderers, idolaters, and people who do it with animals.
Paul was himself commition by Jesus to evangelize and he spoke agains homosexuality in Romans.
I just don't see what not clear about that.
Trust me, I understand how difficult it is to abstain from what is worthless.
I am not ashamed to say that I myself was once a slave to corruption. But I am prepared to serve God with my WHOLE heart and if that means I must make sacrifices, then I will do so with my WHOLE strength.
Too many "Christians" are just willing to pick and choose when it comes to the commandments.
That's all I'm saying
And dont' make any excuses for Maher.
I saw his movie too.
And the way he badgered the man who was once a homosexual questioning his faith and tempting him to give in;
and the comments he made when he was in the gay bar seems like he has some issues with gays himself.
Craig
To tell a man a lie like he will not be judged by God if he remains in his sins
is not kindness.
A Christian's duty is to remind all of God's lost sheep not to stray too far away from what is written.
When Jesus was tempted by the Devil, everytime he was able to reply to Satan: it is written, it is written
So you can't tell me that Jesus was "okay" with gays. He wasn't. He is God's Son, and the perfect representation of Him.
If God was not okay with, neither was Jesus
Hey Bill-
My Dad is finally in LA after wrapping up his Italian tour and the Arclight in Hollywood stopped showing Religulous!! We are still going to see it but until then will just have to content ourselves with coming to your season finale. You'd probably enjoy debating religion with him and if not just smoking a bowl with him. Looking forward to your show on Friday and I will be taking Dad to see Religulous for the first time and the forth for me.
Damn good movie!
Craig
Sorry to keep harping on this but I forgot 1 Corinthians too.
1 Corinthians 6: 9,10
Hi Bret,
I don't debate that homosexuality is against God's will in the Bible, however, I've always been puzzled by something, and hope you'll shed some light.
The Bible also says unless you believe Jesus to be the son of God, that you won't go to heaven.
Statistically, this means 66% of the world's population will not be allowed to enter the pearly gates.
What I wonder is why homosexuality threatens Christian ideals more than the 66% of the world's people who don't believe as they do? If it were put to a vote, do you believe Christians would outlaw other faiths? Or outlaw legislation that allowed for aid to nations that aren't Christian? I suspect some would be tempted, however, I'd like to believe American Christians understand that would radically violate the intent of our founding fathers to allow religious freedom, and to keep matters of church and state separate.
I guess it comes down to which is a bigger guiding force in your life, the literal Bible or the US Constitution, huh?
Maybe I just answered my own question :0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvKP0SERi6c
Proof of an almighty creator? Yes and No, depending who you are. Regardless, with or without, get on with it, but remember: YOU ARE TINY.....VERY VERY TINY,
ESPECIALLY YOU, WILBR AND GENIE.
Bret!
Finally we get a good look at your true colors on display.
With such hatred and bigotry in the name of god, it truly is a mystery why anyone would be turned off by religion.
You know the bible was once, and in many circles continues to be, cited as justification for the discrimination of black people. Burning cross anyone?
How do you feel about that Bret? Does god tell you to hate black people too?
Your movie Religulous was so on-the-mark...except in one way: your handling of the anti-Zionist rabbi dude's views on Israel was, quite ironically, religious. The way the movie's attitude towards the existence of the state of Israel came across to me was that we should *never* question whether Israel was founded justly. (Let me note here that I am 50% Jewish.) Even if we end up concluding that the carving of a new country (Israel) from previously occupied Arab territories was in fact just, the question is still worth asking.
Hi MJ
I still intend to get back on our last discussion for I have quite a bit of research to share. But for now I wanted to add the scriptures mention that even the demons believe. Jesus also said that there would be those when he arrives that would say Lord did we not do good things in your name and he will say 'get away from me you workers of lawlessness.' Apparently belief in Jesus is not enough.
Which puts me in line with Bret's claim. These ones and Churches that say 'We do nice things and care for people' and at the same time not take the laws of God seriously which are also restated in the New Testament. Fornication, adultery, men who lie with men are classed in the same category as murder and receives the same punishment, everlasting death.
Also in the Old Testament, anyone struggling and causing a woman to lose a child while in the mother's womb was also put to death. These laws should not be lessened by a person's desire to not rock the boat or hide under the freedom of constitutional rights. God's laws are always supreme to man's laws. Where there is a conflict, God's laws should always be followed.
That doesn't mean we take matters into our own hands to condemn anyone for that would be judging them as to life or death. The Apostles said we cannot judge those on the outside for they are being judged by God as we are. We judge ourselves to make sure we are in line and following these principles always looking for opportunities when they arise to teach and instruct the way Jesus did.
There are those Christians and congregations that like to hold up signs at funerals of homosexuals or abortion clinics and show hostility toward persons and their behavior is unbecoming to say the least. Most of these persons and their minister are probably committing fornications themselves the same as murder in God's eyes, therefore hypocrites.
The important thing to remember is that God has purposed a day in which to judge the whole world and we should all reflect and make sure we are standing firm and spotless from the carefree, immoral attitudes of this world.
Janice,
judging by your name, I will presume that you are female.
If so, I must insist that you cease all argument at once. You see, I am a man. And according to YOUR old testament law, I am superior to you in every way. The lord created ME. You were just made from MY rib.
Don't believe me? Read your own book:
Genesis 3:16
Genesis 16:2
Genesis 21:10
Exodus 21:2-4
Exodus 21:7
Leviticus 27:6
Numbers 5:11-31
Numbers 30
Deuteronomy 21:10-13
Deuteronomy 22:13-21
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Deuteronomy 24:1
I could just go on and on!
So let me ask you something:
Does your husband know what you're doing right now? If you aren't married then your father damn well better know what you're doing.
Are you starting to see ANY problems with worshipping the laws of 2000 yrs ago!?!?
Hi Darren:
No, I don't see where there is a problem. Everyone has a head except God himself. The head of man is Christ and the head of Christ is God as the scriptures explain. The head of a woman is man and he should be respected as such while the man is commanded to love his wife as his own flesh.
In the beginning the woman was to be a helper for the man. Due to man's sin, the result was that he came to dominate the woman not exercise his headship in a loving way. However Jesus set the example for the way a man should care for his wive and family by the way he cared for his disciples and many people.
Also, the Mosaic laws were given to the Israelites for a time as a tutor to lead them to faith in Christ. The Mosaic laws were not given to any other people. So the laws concerning the women and property no longer apply. The Israelites also broke the Mosaic law covenant many times and the law that was to lead them to Christ , this christ they also rejected. So no one is under the Mosaic law today for Jesus instituted a new covenant with his disciples.
However, the principles of the laws remain as far as morality is concerned and commandments against immorality are restated in the New Testament as to those that will not inherit God's kingdom. thank You.
P.S. No I'm not married, my father died several months ago. Nevertheless, I will welcome him back in the resurrection. Anyway I have some thngs to take care of.
Janice,
Your quote, ".. hide under the freedom of constitutional rights" is the most unsettling things I’ve read in a long time. And, I’m almost positive I heard Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams turn over in their graves. Since I’m guilty as charged, perhaps you could call the firing squad to have them put me out of my Constitutional loving misery!
And Unless your research of our previous exchange on Islam involves you living in Saudi Arabia for 4 years and experiencing the hospitality of that culture, or even sitting down for a respectful (that means truly non-judgmental) conversation with anyone from that faith, you have nothing to share with me that will influence me, because those experiences and several decades of my own research have lead me to my understanding of all the major religions of the world.
All religions are peace loving, charitable, honorable, and attempt to raise mankind to a higher level of consciousness and kindness. Noble intentions abound in all the camps; it just seems that no one has figured out how to live peaceably amongst each other despite their teachings. The United States of America holds in its hands the opportunity to do what seems to have been impossible up until now; bring the world together for the common purpose of the well being of our planet and species.
Remember, the definition of stupid is to keep doing things the same way and expecting different results. What we've been doing for the past several thousand years with regards to religious discourse now has the potential to obliterate the human race. So, for the sake of our survival we need to find a way to work together without the need to be “right” all the time, and to develop a new level of tolerance for diversity. And thanks to that pesky U.S. Constitution and its silly promises of protection of freedoms we are now in a position to lead by example if we do it correctly.
I'm not sure if you personally check comments, but if you haven't heard of or seen it already, SCHOOL OF NIGHT at the Mark Taper Forum in Los Angeles is one of the most pertinent, powerful pieces of theater I have seen in a long time. I happened to see it the same day as I saw your movie, and they fit hand in hand together so perfectly it was astonishing. I think you would truly appreciate the message and the portrayal of the show as it is very similar to the message of RELIGULOUS.
Excuse me MJ
I am not attacking your constitutional rights or the rights of any country to set their own laws. It my be the right to kill an unborn child or the right for people under man's laws to engage in immoral behavior or even join into matrimony or the lack of matrimony. However, Christians canot say it's my constitutional right and at the same time disobey God's laws and principles they claim to live by. They can't have it both ways and say God doesn't mind and hide under man's laws to protect them when that judgement day arrives.
So your rights are fully intact under whatever goverment you live. I don't know if even the founding fathers probably would have dreamed their constituion would be interpreted the way it is today.
It sounds like you might favor Islam or Saudia Arabia over Christianity or living in America. I don't take to being covered from head to foot every day of my life or seeing people hands and feet cut off every Friday as I was told by a Muslim friend living in Saudia that was afraid even speaking with me. Apparently they do not have freedom of speech listed under their rights of dictorship.
I do have many hospitable Muslim persons I speak with all the time concerning the Bible and the Quran everyday. One person I did help financial while he was in Lebanon and is now in the USA. I care for them and feel they care for me in many ways. I have no problem speaking with anyone that wants to share their faith. I have more than 20 Muslims I converse with through email about spiritual things and they share things from their holy book.
However, Islam cannot be compared to the teachings of Jesus which are found in the Bible, not the Quran. Jesus himself said what does light have to do with darkness and he also stated that Moses and Prophets spoke about him, not Mohammad. As much as Muslims would like to think Mohammad is mentioned as the last prophet in the Bible, he is not.
Lastly, I would like to mention that a prophecy in Revelation tells of a World Government (False Prophet) rises to power and leads the world to proclaim they have achieved 'Peace and Security' and causes all persons on the earth to recognize the image of the World Government. This world government is foretold to be destroyed by Christ Jesus along with all the kings and armies on earth. 1 Thes 5:2, 3 also See Revelation
There will be what the governments feel is peace and unity for the world, but only God will bring true Peace and Security.
Janice,
How incredibly convenient that you can call the old testament God's law:
"in the Old Testament, anyone struggling and... God's laws are always supreme to man's laws"
when you're talking about abortion, but when it pertains to woman's rights, all of the sudden it is no longer relevant because Jesus gave us the new testament.
Just like every other Christian, you pick and choose what you will and won't interpret literally to suit your own ideals.
So the new testament is the real law now huh?
Okay, fine:
1 Timothy 2:8-14
I desire, then, that in every place the should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. LET A WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE WITH FULL SUBMISSION. I PERMIT NO WOMAN TO TEACH OR TO HAVE AUTHORITY OVER A MAN; SHE IS TO KEEP SILENT. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
Absolutely nothing there about "man's sin leading him to dominate women". Pretty clearly tells us that we SHOULD dominate women.
Go ahead and tell us all why you don't believe in THIS particular part of the bible either. I am sure you have some excuse to try explain away the blatantly misogynistic text which I quoted directly from the new testament.
Daniel 2:44 Also speaks of a Kingdom that will be installed by God that will never be destroyed in which the Son of Man will rule forever without the aid of human governments
MJ
It is entirely up to individuals to make a choice to obey Man or God. All of today's governments are faced with making choices and decisions that directly impact its citizens.
A lot of these decisions are a choice of the lesser of two evils. While some stand to benefit from a certain law, others may be greatly oppressed by it.
Man does not have the ability to Govern himself without making mistakes, sometimes deadly costly mistakes.
While we live under such unstable conditions individual Christians are faced with the choice of obeying God's laws or Man's.
All Christians are to be in constant obedience to the "superior authorities" granting honor to the "King" or Overseer of his or her nation.
But, as in the case of the Three Hebrews in Babylon whose names were changed to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, when the nations call on God's people to follow laws that in any way ask them overlook God's laws, his true people are expected to disobey the lesser laws in obedience to the greater.
For example: If one day the United States were to reinstate the draft, and my name was selected to support the nations war effort, I will disobey this law in observance of Gods command not to murder.
Just because our Nations Leaders say it's okay to make war upon nations in opposition to its policies, I do not then have the right to kill. That is the problem Christians are faced with. They do not blindly say in their hearts 'My Country, Right or Wrong' because, even though God wisely allows humans to form governments--cause otherwise anarchy would rule the Earth, humans are still imperfect, therefore their judgement is not infallible.
Darren
It is true that 1 Timothy says that. But Jesus spoke openly with a Samaritan woman, giving her respect, listening to her opinions and honoring her feelings.
Yes, a woman is not to act as a Pastor or a Spiritual Leader over the Congregation of God.
This does not mean she does not have priveledges or a part in the worship.
In Psalms, I think, God commends his femaled worshippers, calling them a strong army I think. He praises them in a way that acknowledges their abilities to preach and set spiritual examples.
Also God correct Abraham at one time, telling hime to listen to his wife's voice.
Just because many choose to interpret God's word in a way that would somehow demean women, does not mean God intended them to behave that way.
Jesus sets the proper example of how to honor women.
The Goal of fully pleasing God is only achieved with great difficulty!
It is so because since the world's beginning, Satan has always been there twisting Gods words so that truth cannot be found easily.
Who is it easier to obey God or Satan?
Certainly it is Satan. We, all of us, have been born INTO sin. We naturally tend to favor missing the mark placed by God.
But even perfect people made this mistake. Adam was spoken to directly by God and Eve was warned by her husband. Both of them will never by seen again because they willfully obeyed their own desires even though it must have been much easier for them to follow Gods laws.
Satan himself was an Angel of God having existed for billions of years in God's company only to be enticed (in an instant) by his own desire for worship and to fall away from the Glory of God forever.
But, since the beginning of Man he has questioned God's judgement. Telling Eve: Is this really so? That God said not to...Do something.
All though our parents decided to plunge us into ruin, it was THEIR choice! So it would not be fair for us, their children, to bear the brunt of their punishment.
God knows this. That is why he, from the beginning, set out a way to reconcile with the Sons of Men; all those who are willing to obey God and thus recieve his blessing. At the same time vindicating Himself, proving that he is the rightful Lawmaker and Judge of his own creations.
That is why it is so so so important to obey God, whatever he asks! Not only do we have free will, but we have the tendency to want to disobey anyway.
That is why Gods laws are constantly being displayed as unfair or inhumane. Satan continues with that same old lie that God is somehow depriving us of something by asking for our allegiance in all respects.
It is not easy, but it is not impossible.
Thanks Bret for clearing up some of the women's issues.
Darren there is no need for me to twist the scriptures but it is important to put the scriptures in the right context.
In Revelation Jesus shed light on the situations in many of the congregations which he did not approve of. There was a Jezebel influence in one of the congregations. Women questioning the authority of men to teach and head the congregation. Therefore the women were to remain silent as respects the authority of the men to teach. Remember also women were given gifts to prophecy in the congregations as well and speak in foreign tongues to spread the good new of God's kingdom to people of different langugage. They were no different in being given the opportunity as kings, priests, rulers over the earth. So of course they could speak in the congregation. If you look in the same chapter others were told to remain silent also when speaking in tongues when there was no interpreter.
Women can teach in the congregation if no qualified male is available if she wears a head dress until some qualified male is able to do so.
Concerning women in the old testament being treated as property. They could only marry within their tribe so that one tribe could not come to have more than another and the inheritance of each tribe was protected. We certainly can't apply that law today for the law was directed toward the tribe of Israel and they for the most part lost the ablity to know which tribe they belong to.
We still use the Old Testament Laws as a basis for how we live today including the issue on how God feels toward an unborn child.
Also the prophecy concerning the result of Adam's sin is recorded at Genesis 3:16 "and your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you."
That's enough bible study for today. I have to get ready and go out of town tomorrow so if you have any more comments or questions, I'll answer when I get back.
After reading a lot of comments here, it made me remember why I'm a atheist..
http://www.myspace.com/428763605
http://voiceyourfuture.net/
Oh my: Do I have the time to point out the hyprocrisy and the fact that you are just taking the literal English translation of both the old and new Testament without checking the scriptures before or after the verse taken out of context, the language the translation was derived from and the socio-economic class struggles and political climate that was occurring at the time! "Fasten your seat belts! It's going to be a bumpy ride" to quote Bette Davis!
Bret, Janice - Old testament scriptures taken frm the Hebrew of course: the passages referring to homosexuality as an abomination along with masturbation, beastiality and adultery that you mentioned, abomination as scholars will point out is not a "religous and sacred condemnation but a cultural one for the Jewish tribes at that time. They were being decimated by wars with their neighbors and needed to populate their tribes. ANY SEXUAL ACT THAT WAS NOT FOR PROCREATION WAS CONSIDERED AN ABOMINATION BY THEIR SOCIETY, A WASTE OF PRECIOUS "MANSEED" RESOURCES!! We had a 8 week series of bible studies on this with a scholar with a doctorate degree in theology!! The story of Lot and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, the sin was INHOSPITALITY BY THE CITYFOLKS! They wanted to rape the visitors that Lot had invited to his home. Homosexual rape was the device they wanted to use but the sin was INHOSPITALITY! Ask a true scholar!! In the New Testament the couple verses you pulled out of context (of course) both refer to the only type of homosexuality that was known in the Greco-Roman world at that time! Older man - under age boy and the older man most likely married with a wife and the boy was an apprentice to the old man's trade. This type would be the type that we call "child molestation" today! There was no frame of reference for the writers of that time period to write about "consenting adults homosexuality" because it wasn't known in that time that two consenting adult men or two women would have a committed relationship. That is probably why Jesus was silent on this issue, because it wasn't an issue! Bret, you probably were against interracial marriage too, I bet! Probably like to see America return to what the 2008 GOP convention looked like - Lily white and over 50!!
You know in the Old Testament, there are scriptures condoning slavery also and asking slaves to be obedient to their masters! Are you saying we go back to those archaic laws as well in our democracy?
Thank God for our Constitution, laws of separation of church and state, the bill of Rights and that enough people voted to keep McCain/Palin out of office to keep most of those treasured institutions intact! I've seen what happens to states/governments run by one religion, Iran, Iraq!! God help us if they got into office!! No Bret, I'll take my philosophy of Love them, don't judge them, that is not my job, I have enough to handle keeping myself in line. Our first and only two commandments given to us by Christ in the New Testament are very simple Bret: To Love God with all your heart, sould and mind and to Love your neighbor as yourself! Otherwise, don't point a finger at someone else in judgment because four other fingers are pointing back at you!!
Craig
What about 1 Corinthians 6: 9,10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders (inluding women) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Paul wrote Corinthians, Jesus told Paul to evangelize
Also, I don't see how it fits in with the rest of the discussion, but, I'm black and understand quite well our nations history of hypocrisy
Anyway...I am tired of argueing.
Follow God's Laws or Not, in the end its you choice.
The "Buzz" is that the movie sucks!
Your "bit" on Farewell Douchebags was funny....can you add youself to those we won't have to see in the future.
We would like to hear ONE funny sentence from you. Can you make that your New Year resolution?
The "Buzz" is that the movie sucks!
Your "bit" on Farewell Douchebags was funny....can you add youself to those we won't have to see in the future.
We would like to hear ONE funny sentence from you. Can you make that your New Year resolution?
Paul wrote Timothy also Bret...
Hmmm.... yet AGAIN you pick & choose the parts you wish to believe.
When it's the misogynistic Paul you say
"It is true that 1 Timothy says that. BUT..."
Then when it suits your purposes of hating gays, Paul is again the word of God.
Such hypocrisy! I just don't know what it is that anyone dislikes about religion...
a word of scripture from the book of Peter, and I quote:
"The current affair gets to be my business,
I heard the news on the radio:
the sun on earth... what is this?
Is that the way that the crazy goes?
Attention tuned to the satellites,
looking down for an overview.
In the chapel of space we are acolytes.
In the battle of time we're all soldiers too
and the relative choir push the energy higher
Under fire.
The sliding show in the macroscopic,
finger on the button pointing to progress.
The apparatus roll, no-one here can stop it,
too busy learning more - always knowing less.
Soon turkey-wrapped in the spaceman blanket
we'll offer up lame duck apologies
and settle down for the final banquet,
the gourmet dish of technology...
cryogenic device catches all human life
under ice.
The current affair gets to be all our businness,
it's filtered in through the T.V. screen.
The norm, the average...what is this,
when it goes blank what does that all mean?
And what's the drive of each individual?
And what's the way that the story ends?
Is it Mr. X, left as the last residual
holder of the flame, conscience of all men?
But he's so tense to expire
he throws himself on the wire
under fire.
Is this the way the world ends?
Under ice, under fire?
Has there been some mistaken design?
Under ice
got to find the human voice.
Lord, deliver us from Babel."
Maybe there is a God who can save us from all this speculation. Otherwise, we will have to continue listening to all the verses thrown at us by the mindless disciples.
Thank you, Bill,for helping me to feel so much less alone in my chronic distressed bafflement at the stock that is placed in blind faith, the outrageous hypocracy that characterizes too many devotees of religion who proclaim good will toward others yet will commit heinous hate crimes toward others who do not see things their way, and the blatant lack of rational thought underlying religious zeal, so brilliantly illustrated in many of the interviews you have documented. I admire and appreciate your courage, the intelligence and integrity with which you tackle the subject, and letting us all meet your Mom.
I guess my hope is that Mr Maher himself will read this. It’s interesting how he with all his wit and smartness have the same arguments as any man on the street. I’ve been talking to people in many countries and they all think they are very original in their thinking, but the way they oppose the gospel is almost identical. One big mistake Bill Maher is making is, that he thinks that Christianity is a religion. True Christianity is NOT a religion. It’s the only way man’s spirit can be born again and come alive. Through Jesus Christ we can get divine life into our very core being. No religion can do that. A monkey can be trained to be NICE, but that’s not what Christianity is about. WE are not NICE, we are filled with the power of GOD. There are a lot of Christians whose only aim is to be NICE, but that’s not what Jesus died for. He came to deliver us from DEATH which is holding people captive. Jesus conquered DEATH. That’s not religion, that’s REAL! I was 30 when I was born again. My whole life was radically changed. I didn’t even go to a church to receive Jesus and His resurrection power. I was all by myself on a beach in Spain. I found a church later, because with my new life and revelation of the truth, I wanted to have fellowship and teaching from other Christians. No movement can stop people from get to know Jesus personally. They tried in China and they have tried in Soviet Union. Now people are trying very deliberately to kill Christianity in America. There are groups of atheists and humanists that are trying very hard. No man can stop The Holy Spirit from talking to and revealing the truth to any human being. It doesn’t matter if she’s in prison or in a country run by dictatorship. Not even in America with all her freedom can the gospel of Jesus Christ be stopped. In every generation there have been and are people that are saved. In these latter days more people than in all history together will come to faith and there’s nothing either Bill Maher or anybody else can do about it. It will come to pass. I hope you who read this will be one of those people that receive eternal life and heavenly joy.
I am a Christian who was raised in the church and my husband and I have raised our children in the church. I have taught Sunday school off and on for many years as my schedule has permitted. I saw Religulous last weekend and loved it. You raise many intelligent and valid points, and I think the reason people are speaking out against you and the movie is that they feel threatened. Like the trucker who became angry and left the group interview, they are unable to tolerate any opinions other than their own. Something that has always bothered me is that organized religion throughout the world and throughout the ages is responsible for more wars and killings than anything else which is the exact opposite of what it should be. We are all searchers and questioners and anyone who says otherwise is either a sheep or not being truthful. Great movie.
WOW. First, i just saw RELIGULOUS for the second time over the weekend... it's fantastic. Second - i think bret and wilber from the comments above should just get a room already. maybe the "ex-gay" preacher from the movie could help them sort out their feelings.
Thanks Bill for putting out an entertaining yet thought provoking flick. I loved the interview with the bald dude outside the vatican.
I wonder if his bosses saw the movie!?
The pope just declared carbon emmissions a cardinal SIN.. ha ha ha!! so what are all the REPUBLICAN drill baby drill people going to do now...??? PROBOBLY CONFESSION.... or HELL !!! i love it
Hello Bill,
I just want to thank you for doing this movie. It is about time someone spoke out! I watch your show and I agree with you 99% of the time!:) I am very open about being a "nonbeliever" and those damn christians just want to pray for me. That drives me insane. So thanks again! I am going to buy a bumpersticker for my car-it reads, "If you are not an atheist you are not reading the bible correctly" and "I think, therefore I am atheist"-I found them on cafepress.com
Anyways it was a great movie!
Lisa
Hello Bill,
I just want to thank you for doing this movie. It is about time someone spoke out! I watch your show and I agree with you 99% of the time!:) I am very open about being a "nonbeliever" and those damn christians just want to pray for me. That drives me insane. So thanks again! I am going to buy a bumpersticker for my car-it reads, "If you are not an atheist you are not reading the bible correctly" and "I think, therefore I am atheist"-I found them on cafepress.com
Anyways it was a great movie!
Lisa
I would like to address Craig:
Does your "scholar with a doctorate degree in theology" refer you to Leviticus 18:22; 20:13? "And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a destestable thing." This commandment concerning homosexuality was part of the Mosaic Law Covenant as well and the Israelites agreed to abide by those laws.
God sent the angels to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah not because the city folk were inhospitable. At the request of Lot, God said he would not destroy the city even if there were found just 10 righteous men in the city. If we apply the theory of your "scholar with a doctorate degree in theology", God would have destroyed two (2) whole cities because 10 hospitable men could not be found. At any rate the decision to destroy the cities had already been made before the men and boys surrounded the home in their inhospitable manner.
A word of warning: The disciples of Jesus were considered unlettered and ordinary by the Religious Leaders of their day because they had not attended higher schools of Rabbinical knowledge. However, the disciples of Jesus were chosen to preach the truth, not the educated Pharisees or Sadducees. It doesn't take a degree to acquire wisdom and knowledge about God. And true scholars(?) don't always agree. So it's best to read several scholars and form your own opinions or conclusions.
Jesus also did not mention every Mosiac (613) Law that had to be followed but to suffice loving God with your whole heart, soul and mind means obeying his commandments concerning fornications.
Concerning slavery in the Bible. Yes it was allowed for the Israelites to sell themselves into slavery if they became to poor to pay off their debts. However, they could be released after paying off their debts and everybody went free during the Jubliee Year. So slavery under the Mosaic law covenant was different from the slavery and abuse we've seen in among the nations. The non-Israelite slaves also had rights as well such as not working on the Sabbath day and could only receive a certain number of strokes. Slavery however, was not a part of God's purpose for man in the beginning. If the first man had obeyed God’s commandment, there would never have been a reason for anyone to be in poverty or sell themselves into slavery because everyone’s needs would have been met. Because of man's sin, it became a part of society and therefore God regulated it as far as the Israelites were concerned.
‘In the Roman Empire slaves were very numerous . . . The apostle Paul admonished Christian slaves not to take advantage of their relationship to believing masters . . . For a slave to have a Christian master was a blessing, as his owner was under obligation to deal righteously and fairly with him. (Eph. 6:9; Col. 4:1) Even if their masters were to treat them unjustly, this did not give them license to render inferior service . . . fine conduct toward their masters prevented bringing reproach upon the name of God, as no one could blame Christianity for producing lazy, good-for-nothing slaves [or advocating a slaves’ revolt against the Roman Empire] .’
‘Of course, a slave’s “obedience in everything” could not include disobeying God’s law, as that would have meant fearing men rather than God.. Wrongdoing by slaves, even when committed at the direction of a superior, would not have ‘adorned the teaching of their Savior, God,’ but would have misrepresented and disgraced this teaching. (Titus 2:10)’ THE END
For Blogger "Bret": I'm with you. Fulfilled prophesy is my anchor. Perhaps you are familiar with a book called "The Prophet Motive". The opinions of all naysayers evaporate in the light of this book.
Like I wrote before, I was 30 when I met Jesus. I was not raised in the church. I believed in God as a child and I never denied him, but I never understood who Jesus was. When I was a teenager I had a career as a singer. I was touring, recording, doing lots of TV. I had quite a life looking from the outside. I was a celebrity, something a lot of people seem to desire to be these days. I have a lot of good experiences from this, I got to travel and see things a lot of people don’t have a chance to, but on the inside I was very insecure and hurt. People can be very brutal to you when you are everybody’s “possession”. Look at Britney Spears for example. What happened to me was I became a seeker. I searched in all kinds of places in my 20’s. I looked into Eastern religions, scientology etc. And I withdraw pretty much from society. To me, the most important thing was to find spiritual answers. It wasn’t till I started to read the bible that my life began to change. I had a lot of anxiety and panic attacks frequently, and I sensed how the words of the bible were speaking to me and were penetrating the darkness inside me. This was going on for about 4 years, and that day at the beach in Spain I was laying in the sun when I felt the Holy Spirit come over me, giving me a choice to choose life or death, and I was sure did I say yes, I would die. But the love I felt was so strong I decided it was worth it. I said yes and the love of God filled my whole being and I was weeping like a baby. It was tears of joy and I was totally crushed at the same time. This happened in August 1985 and my life has never been the same. I’m now 53 if you can do the math, and I totally know what it’s like to not be a Christian. I also know of the I also know of the anguish and everything else that people go through when they don’t have Jesus in their lives. Fear is a big constant in many people’s life. God’s love can take that away. There are a lot of lukewarm churches, where there’s no fire of God. When I first was saved, God led me to a church where the presence of God was so strong sometimes you had to hold on to something to not fall over. I now live in America, and I know there are churches like that here too. Unfortunately I live in California and have not seen that move of God here. The Pentecostal movement started on Azusa Street in L.A and I believe it can happen again. It can even happen to you Bill Maher!
Bill
I stumbled over this gem in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 25:11-12), I have a feeling you'll you'll like it:
"When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one approaches to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, you shall sever her hand; you shall have no compassion."
Janice, Bret - Go ahead - I will challenge you to live by all the old literal laws of the old testament and the new commandments in the New testament and challenge all the Judgmental preachers on TV and in the media to do the same including "giving all your money and treasures to God, for it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"! Can you live by all the old dietary rules, laws of not working on the Sabbath-meanig not doing any chores, like going to get groceries, raking the lawn, taking care of business you can't get to during the week because God commands the Sabbath, whether you practice on a Saturday or Sunday to be given to God and to rest. Are you willing to take all those verses, literally verbatim also?!
Of course not, our God is a living God and he knows life and times have changed and he is here and alive today as he was a few thousand years ago! Janice - My preacher was getting the point across that not everything in the Bible is to be taken as the truth as it actually happened-some of these stories were told for the "truth" that was contained in the stories. Jesus even told parables to illustrate his points and make it easier for the common person to understand. Jesus spoke about the spirit or intent of the law and many times himself broke the laws of the Sabbath, by healing people, speaking to people, ect.. You get bogged down in the trivialities of the law and you don't see the forest from the trees of what Christ was trying to teach. I already explained in an earlier post what the old and new testament environment was regarding the homosexual verses, you can believe your way, I'll believe mine, I'm no longer going to fight that. We'll just agree to disagree! My path to faith and showing love to people and not judging them I believe is the right way to go in my heart. I believe condemning someone for the way they were created is wrong and drives people away from Christ's love in my humble opinion. I've read enough new testament scriptures to believe that homosexuality is very low on the totem pole - mentioned like just 3 times. Forgiveness as opposed to judgment seems to be a much more common theme and above all, faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love!! Remember, love is kind, it does not judge, it is not selfish, it does not seek its own way! I much rather follow the teachings in 1 Corinthians Chapter 13 if I'm to select a chapter out of the Bible out of context like the judgmental preachers like to do when they want to condemn somebody!
Matthew 5:17-20
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill; for truly I say to YOU that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place. Whoever, therefore, breaks one of these least commandments and teaches mankind to that effect, he will be called ‘least’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. As for anyone who does them and teaches them, this one will be called ‘great’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. For I say to YOU that if YOUR righteousness does not abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, YOU will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
Luke 6:46-49
“Why, then, do YOU call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say? Everyone that comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show YOU whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid a foundation upon the rock-mass. Consequently, when a flood arose, the river dashed against that house, but was not strong enough to shake it, because of its being well built. On the other hand, he who hears and does not do, is like a man who built a house upon the ground without a foundation. Against it the river dashed, and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house became great.”
Craig
Please don't listen to wicked reasonings and rationalizations! Because they are given in order for man to be misled and so that they can make excuses not to obey.
Satan is able to transform himself into an Angel of Light! And he makes is sayings smooth, giving seemingly good reasons to follow a crooked path.
This technique he is using to the full with mankind in our day. The agents of his (Satan's) church are many and are being misled themselves.
Don't be fooled or lead to the slaughter! Because he is gathering the sons of mankind together for the very purpose of causing a great slaughter of all those who were really trying to get saved! This he does to pain our God, Jehovah; but he shall not succeed!
So be given real light and real rightousness, not mere dimness because our souls are on the line! Do not look upon that which is incomplete and dim! The true brightness of God is blinding for it's purity.
Just like one who has dwelled in darkness, when light is shed upon him, at first his eyes cry out in pain! But what a blessing it is for those who see! How marvelous it is to be able to walk in surety! Not smashing your foot against things set out for stumbling!
As for those who continue in their bad works:
How can He forgive those who aren't really sorry?
2 Peter 3: 9
Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but HE IS PATIENT WITH YOU BECAUSE HE DOES NOT DESIRE ANYONE TO BE DESTROYED BUT DESIRES ALL TO ATTAIN TO REPENTENCE.
Also Craig
About the low on the totem pole thing.
Which is worse, for someone to eat what was commanded not to eat or for someone to murder?
Our first parents only ate, yet they were condemned to Gehenna!
The second death!
All they did was eat!
We on the other hand are liars, fornicators, murderers, etc. But God is stretching out his hand in forgiveness of our errors.
However, sin is sin, and those who will not give up their sins and who turn aside from doing good, grieving God's Holy Spirit, will suffer the same fate as our first parents.
P.S. Jesus did away with the Mosaic Law! We no longer have to worry about Sabbaths, or Tithing, or eating.
To us everyday is a Sabbath day: we are to rest from our works of unrightousness!
We can give voluntarily of our surplus of income in order to fund the preaching work.
We can eat of anything that our conscience allows us to. Only we must not eat (figuratively),
we must not partake of forbidden fruit: all the things that our hearts are lusting for but our minds know they are forbidden; ie fornications, idolatry, murders, theiveries, etc.
Because the heart is a desperate and treacherous thing
Bret - The reason I wrote on this blog in the first place in comment 902 was to write to Bill that not all Christians have the same viewpoint and drink from the same doctrinal kool-aid. I was trying to get Bill to open his mind that Christians can have varied viewpoints as vast as the regular citizenry. However, you just make his point for him, Thanks!
Thank you for justifying his belief that all Christians are right wing nuts that judge people that don't think EXACTLY AS THEY DO!! EXCUSE ME FOR ATTEMPTING TO HAVE A BRAIN AND READ THE SCRIPTURES AND DISCERN FOR MYSELF HOW THE SCRIPTURES SPEAK TO ME. EXCUSE ME FOR ENJOYING THE FREEDOMS OF SPEECH, PRESS AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS OUR COUNTRY GRANTED US!! I'm so sorry that I mistook this country for China, Cuba or another tryannical government where citizens have no rights to express themselves differently! I said before and I'll say it again, You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine, we can in a civil manner just agree to disagree instead of immediately make a judgment that I am not a Christian because I believe a certain way. Imagine, I am a Christian, and you judge me this way, how you would treat someone who is a Jew or a Muslim or an Athiest,WOW?! Remember, it takes more energy to be intolerant than to be tolerant. This is the end. I'm not going to reply to you anymore, because it serves no purpose! I feel right with Christ in how I treat my fellow men, women, without regard to race, gender or sexual orientation. I prefer not to waste my energies on judging people's lifestyle's that are no business of my own. I do look at and rail at hyprocrisy I see in politics, organized religion, pop culture and media and sports and our justice system. When someone does wrong against the laws of the land and against "his brother or sister", they should be judged by the courts and punished accordingly but that is different than punishing someone for how they were created. So when I ever comment again on any blog of Bill's, just realize, I will be speaking to him!
God created Men perfect and men chose to pervert themselves.
We are all born with the inherent tendency to sin.
All fall short of the Glory of God
That is why the tendency to desire sexual relations with ones own sex is so prevelant
God did not create Men Homosexual he created Men Heterosexual, it was only after he sinned that he was doomed to seek after his own desires
Homosexuality is nurtured.
Children today grow up knowing that there is such a thing as gay.
They are also abused and their innocence is lost.
I was also done just that way. When I was a child, just a little boy, even as far back as I cannot remember.
I was only 4 or 5 when I had my first sexual experience with a babysitter.
As a youth I was constantly hating myself and fearing that I would never be a "real" man.
I was suicidal, and jealous of all of those around me who didn't feel anything bad when they had sexual desires.
I hated God for supposedly making me feel like I did and then condemning me for it.
Only recently have my eyes been opened, and I realized that I was not to blame for having such feelings.
If I was not to blame, neither could I blame God because He always wants the best for us
and would never have created anyone with such awful feelings ingraned into them.
Everyday I pray and beg and ask for the strength to keep myself free from all forms of wickedness.
I am the type who will have to remain celebate until the day comes when all of our hearts will be healed.
I am only 25 years old.
Do you know how hard it is for someone young to give up such pleasures?
If I relied on my strength alone, I would never succeed. But I rely on the stength of God. He is my refuge and my confidence.
I am certain that when God thinks of me and my sacrifice he will be pleased and abliged to grant me eternity, and a chance to fulfill all of my hearts desires; but only in righteousness and without hypocrisy.
Bret,
In the same breath you say that God created man perfect and that man is born with the inherent tendency to sin! Excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but wouldn't that mean he isn't perfect?
My goodness, I am seeing more and more how people get sucked into the insanity of religion. You can contradict yourself in a single sentence in order to justify your nonsensical beliefs! It's enough to make anyone's head spin.
Well Bret, your history explains a lot.
I can see why someone with a childhood like that would so desperately need the crutch of religion. Bill Maher acknowledges this in the film. He admits that not believing is a luxury for people who have had easy enough lives that they do not require the crutch religion offers.
Are you a "reformed" homosexual by chance? That is meant to be an honest question by the way, not an attempt at an insult.
I only ask because you mention desires for one's own sex as if you believe such a thing to be innate in every human being.
I have never had sexual desires for another man, so I have never had to force myself to resist.
I believe lena's post are the most informative of all.
Christianity is not a Religion, it's a personal relationship with God/Jesus.
Confusing the two is what the problem has been and always will.
It's up to each individual to come to terms with their own beliefs, no matter what they are.
As I stated, everyday I must pray for strength to resist evil things.
That's as reformed as it gets.
Nothing is easy about anything.
It is very difficult.
And Adam was not homosexual. He only had sexual relations with Eve.
He might have been ugly to her, because God said that he would dominate is wife.
As a child I wanted very much to be "normal". But now that I am an adult I realize that I am.
We are all fallen flesh. If I was not struggling with these desires, I would have to climb some different kind of mountain.
But I am reserved to hold closely to the commandments, and I believe I am truly living my life now, I wasn't alive before.
My response was to Craig before but he will no longer respond to my posts.
I just wanted him to know that I did know what I was talking about, and I wasn't being judgemental of anyone.
If someone in my shoes can find joy in serving God without making excuses for him/her self, I know anyone can.
THE END
Thank you Bret and Lena for sharing your experiences. As a single person myself and for many young and old it can be very difficult to control one’s desires in a world that’s constantly flashing immorality via computer, tv, magazines and music . . . It seems the world is hell bent on making sure everyone fulfills their desires. (smile)
At the risk of this being a really long post, I thought it important to provide some information for Darren and Craig below:
'If we insist that a perfect man could not take a wrong course where a moral issue was involved, should we not also logically argue that an imperfect creature could not take a right course where such moral issue was involved? Yet some imperfect creatures do take a right course on moral issues involving obedience to God, even choosing to suffer persecution rather than change from such a course; while at the same time others deliberately engage in doing what they know is wrong. Thus not all wrong actions can be excused by human imperfection. The deciding factors are the individual's will and choice. In the same way, it was not human perfection alone that would guarantee right action by the first man, but rather, the exercise of his own free will and choice as motivated by love for his God and for what was right.'
Adam, the first man was created relatively perfect for the purpose which God created him to live forever on earth and transform the earth into paradise. Only God is absolutely perfect. Being perfect did not mean Adam could not do wrong. It meant he could not make a mistake. He could truly decide to do right or wrong if that's what he wanted to do without any mistakes. A perfect creature that decides to do wrong in effect rebels against God, which is what the first man did in an attempt to rule or government the world in a conspiracy against God. Adam came to be in an imperfect state spiritually and physically and passed on these traits to his children including sickness and death and a horrible world. Adam will never live again, nor will wicked spirit creatures that also rebelled against God from a once perfect state. Adam lost everlasting life. We, his children on the other hand had no choice in the matter and God made provisions for us to receive everlasting life in the future under the 1000 year administration of his kingdom.
Craig, the Mosaic Law was not to be taken lightly. The laws were to be followed. However, the law was not meant to cause a hardship on people. That is why Jesus told the Pharisees, if your sheep was in a pit on a Sabbath you would lift it out. Jesus also mentioned that when King David and his men were hungry they were allowed to eat bread that was only legal for the priests to eat.
Only the Israelites were given the Mosaic Law which they agreed to follow along with their future generations. However, we still follow the principles of those laws concerning moral issues and as a guideline or basis for laws in society today. The principles of the law Never Change and are restated in the New Testament which Bret posted in the forum. The Mosaic Law was also a tutor to lead the Israelites to faith in Christ. The tutor was no longer needed. The Israelites broke the covenant many times and rejected Jesus. They also bound themselves with a curse if they did not follow the things written in the law.
Any person that could keep all the law perfectly was deserving of everlasting life. No imperfect human could keep all the law perfectly. Therefore the law was a curse condemning all persons to death.
Jesus was perfect man. He was the only person that could obey the law perfectly. He released imperfect humans from the law that condemned them to death - everlasting death. If we were to say we are still under the Mosaic law that would make Jesus sacrifice on our behalf invalid for the law was in effect figuratively nailed to the stake when he died. The law was not changed but set aside for our sake. [END]
I have only one thing to say:
Psalm 46:19
'Be Still and Know that I AM GOD'
Looking up some information concerning this verse posted earlier: Deu 25:11,12
"In case men struggle together with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the hand of the one striking him, and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of him by his privates, you must then amputate her hand. Your eye must feel no sorrow."
It appears this was considered an indecent assault and required the penalty of like for like. Out of regard for the wife's reproductive powers and her husband's right to have children by her, the penalty of amputation of her hand was instead.
Maybe a heavy pot upside the head would come in handy. (LOL)
There is an absolute truth. Is there a god or not? Neither side can proof their point. But ignorance and being uneducated in religion leads to exactly those fanatics that insist their "truth" is the only one and that their truth must be defended - if needed by force. How stupid can you be? My suggestion: Teach religion in schools. All aspects of it. And treat it more like philosophy. Because that is what it really is.
Philosophy and the faith in it. And if people are educated we can have a valid discussion and more understanding of each other. In fact, Europe teaches their kids in school about Christian history, about Muhamed, Alah, about Islam, Hinduism, about Sigi Freud, about the Koran and the bible. Interestingly enough they have a lot less religious fanatics and focus more on the similarities. And as a byproduct, they also have more people not believing in God the way our Christian church wants us to, but in something less specific. It's more about common basic moral values one should have with or with out faith. Educate our kids early. Most of them will turn away from god. Maybe. But some might be coming back into believing because "god", or "Alah", or what ever name you want to give it, is ultimately the last step they just can't explain. They believe in something that made all of our Universe out of nothing. Perhaps, call it energy (by the way, isn't that what E=mc2 is ultimately?). Good movie Bill. Unfortunately you are beating the drum for the ones already on your side. Take up the challenge and make another one. One that actually attracts both sides. One that brings discussion where it is needed.
Thank you, Bill, for "Religulous." You speak for all people of reason and common sense. Lately, I have been emboldened to admit my complete disbelief in the existence of God to my friends and family without fear that I will labeled "an evil person." I know I am a good human being (more generous, loving, kind, tolerant and giving than most of my religious friends and neighbors). The acceptance that I do not believe in "the ultimate fairy tale" has given me more inner peace than the 50 years of religious preaching to which I was subjected. Margi
I have one question to Bill
as much as i agree with pretty much evertythg he says , i wonder how a person who is against religions so much and who claims that religions hinder society development , supports so vehemently Israel which foundation was a 100% bases on strong jewish religious beliefs(promised land thetd get back one day....)
Bill: Loved the movie. I find it odd that people would worship a deity that would rape an under-aged Jewish virgin and then blame it on some poor human schmuck. I would rather believe in Santa Claus. At least all he does is breaks in and enters homes.
When Fahrenheit 9/11 came out I did not hear one factual point against the movie. All the detractors did was personally attack Michael Moore. I would expect that you have experienced the same. "Anything from Bill Maher or Michael Moore cannot be believed because they are socialist liberals and they hate America". To counteract idiocy like that I think it would be great to see a list of references that were used for the factual content of the movie. That would give us the chance to learn more of some of the fascinating tidbits in the movie.
Norm when did God rape a virgin girl? If you are referring to the event in the Bible. Jesus life was transferred from the heavens by means of God's holy spirit to Mary's womb. She did not have sexual relations with her husband until after Jesus was perhaps several months old. She was not raped and remained a virgin until then.
I want to respond to MJ in So Cal
Christian leaders should always be for freedom of religion, and the main reason is that true Christian conversion can only be based on free choice. Through history there have been many attempts to make Christianity a state religion. Konstantin the great was the first regent to impose that on his people. This demand on everybody’s submission to the Christian faith actually was the greatest threat to true faith. Christianity is not about traditions and rituals even though many churches have adopted this false religion.
In regards to the issue of homosexuality and what the bible teaches. Jesus told us Christians to be salt in this world. Why? Because this world is in a rotting process. Without the word of God everything is spiraling down continually; morally and spiritually. That’s one of the reasons we are against the spreading of homosexual behavior, (and we believe it is a behavior and not something people are born to.)All sin is wrong in God’s eyes. Sex outside of marriage is also a destroyer and has robbed millions of true happiness. It’s not love, it’s lust, and cannot fill our deepest needs. We also believe that Jesus can deliver anybody that is in bondage. Lust is a spirit. Why do you think that most homosexual men especially have a very typical way of talking and moving? They are under the same influence and they can be set free and be normal again. Somebody mentioned Sodom and Gomorra before. That whole town of Sodom was under this influence. When two angels came to visit Lot, the men of the city knocked on the door and demanded that these two, (as they thought), men would come out so they could lay with them. This is what it says in NIV: “Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Genesis 19:4-5 If you read the whole chapter, you'll see what a violent spirit that possessed these men. They had a lot of anger and no patients at all. Does that seem familiar?
God destroyed these towns and Lot and his family were the only ones that survived. It’s all in the bible. Nothing is new under the sun and history repeat itself. God is always the same though and we have his word to guide us and let us know the right way so we won’t perish.
My comment about God raping the virgin Mary was tongue in cheek. Far too many Christians try and interpret the bible based on their knowledge and culture of today not on that of the time it was written. Rape, as defined today, is having sexual intercourse with another person who is either unaware or does not permit it. Mary was certainly unaware. If Christians can add their own interpretations to the bible, so can I. The story of Lot has often been used to condemn gays. What most Christians conveniently don't mention is that the people of the city wanted Lot to allow them to "get" to his heavenly visitors. What Lot does instead is to offer his own daughters. So in this instance, I guess homosexuality is a sin but giving up your daughters to be raped is OK.
To Norm
Mary was not "unaware". As always with God, we are given a choice to accept or reject His proposition.
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" Luke 1:34
I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her.Luke 1:38
Mary said yes to God in faith. To compare God's interaction with rape
is ludicrous.
The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and everything that comes from Him is holy and pure.
Lena,
I'm always so curious about the nature vs. nurture argument surrounding homosexuality. I have friends and family that are homosexual, and yet I've never one time been tempted to participate in their behavior. I don't know about you, but I didn't "choose" to be heterosexual, it's just how I'm wired. And without exception, ALL of the homosexuals I know say they knew they were attracted to the same sex as early as 5 years old. Do they all just make this experience up?! Most of them did not even know what a homosexual was when they had those feelings, so how else would you explain their development besides biochemically? And I've never quite excepted that people would "choose" to be persecuted and ridiculed unless it was beyond their control.
I've heard people of faith use the arguement that there is no scientific evidence to support it being genetic. That makes me laugh! Last time I checked there was no scientific evidence that GOD exists either, but that doesn't stop millions from believing it to be true.
I appreciate that the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, but so is owning slaves, which the Bible condones. How does one justify the rejection of one tenant and not question any others?
And while I support your right to not agree with or participate in their lifestyle, I also support their right to live it. Denying them rights is not going to turn the tide or stop or discourage anyone who is by choice or chemistry homosexual. History shows that it is on their side. Just 10 years ago, there was a 22 point spread when gay marriage was prosposed and defeated in CA. That spread has shrunk to just 4% on Prop 8 this past election.
From my understanding of the verses, Mary when informed she would give birth to a child that would be a savior and bring peace to the world, she consented saying, 'let it be so as you have said.' She did not hesitate like Moses or think she was not prepared to be a mother with such great responsibility.
Concerning Lot - Why he did not try to fight the mob or ask the men of God to fight the mob instead of offering up his daughters has puzzled me to say the least. It just seemed to me that his first instinct would be to protect his daughters.
To shed some light on the situation, research revealed that visitor(s) were considered to be under the householder's protection during their stay. It may be that Lot offered up his daughters to stall the crowd pressing in on him until he could get back inside to the visitors. We weren't there at that moment and time and can't say for sure what was on his mind. It's easy to be as they say 'a Monday night quarterback(?)' Considering that moment in time and the immoral climate, even Lot's own daughters got him drunk and had children by him.
I find it fascinating that the Bible recorded these events and doesn't hide the imperfections or wrong thoughts, desires, mistakes and actions of everyday people or servants of God. Even King David committed murder to cover over a pregnancy resulting from the adulterous relationship with another man's wife. I truly appreciate the Bible's truth and honesty. If the Bible portrayed people absolutely perfect where they never said or did anything wrong we might think it impossible for us to live up to God's standards. Instead we can see their mistakes and avoid them.
The important thing to remember is that God is very patient and forgiving with all wrongdoers. Things have to get pretty far out of hand for him to destroy whole cities like Sodom and Gomorrah or take action on a global scale such as in the flood of Noah's day.
Being that God is patient with all of us sinners in which "he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth", we should be patient and kind to all and not render judgment except for ourselves. Kindly tell people what we believe and let them live their lives the way they see fit. -Acts 17:31
However, God’s Word serves as a warning for us all:
"Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's kingdom. And YET that is what some of YOU were . . . but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God." (1 Cor 6:9-11)
On behalf of the Bible, I would like to say that the Mosaic law did regulate slavery but God did not purpose slavery to be a part of the world. Instead slavery resulted from Adam deciding to rule the world apart from God's direction. The Israelites were allowed to sell themselves for a while in order to pay off debts. Non Israelite slaves also had rights.
God also did not purpose for men to have more than one wife but they went taking more wives for themselves and therefore God regulated it and allowed it for a time. It also was not God's purpose for a man to divorce his wife but God regulated that as well so that the wife could be protected.
There are many injustices in this world created by man himself. I guess our hope for a better world is not in this world but the new world to come.
To Janice
Regarding Lot and why he didn’t fight these men. Well it says that it was “all the men, from every part of the city..- both young and old”. That’s pretty overwhelming. And remember God spared only Lot and his family and that only because of Abraham’s prayers. I don’t know why he offered his daughters, maybe because the thought of these men violating even God’s angels was more than he could handle.
And to MJ SO Cal
I’ve been around for some time, half a century actually, and only in my lifetime I have seen a tremendous change. More people are falling for the homosexual lifestyle than ever before. And I think especially in your teenage years, if you are encouraged to try you can easily be caught. It’s all about lust really and it can be canalized either way. I’ve had homosexual friends too. One guy I knew simply said that he thought it was less complicated to live with a man. I have also found that most homosexuals want to spread their lifestyle. There is even a thought pattern among them that everybody is gay, really. And considering it’s all about lust, that could happen when the moral standards break down completely. Many of them have a very clear agenda. They want everybody to bow to their way of thinking and they love to influence the media. It happens in America and all over the world. I’ve seen it in my country. They even take over what is to be family entertainment and dress and act in a way that children shouldn’t have to see. You don’t hear the word seduce very often these days. But it’s still a reality. People are being seduced, doped and numbed. Even in the schools homosexuals want to “inform” children about their lifestyle. It’s a very deliberate propaganda and it’s not just about them being able to live as they want. They want approval, even from Christians.
In Isaiah 5:20 it says:“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.”
I had to drive two and a half hours out of my shithole in Appalachia into suburbia to see it but it was worth the trip! It was funny and smart and just a tad condescending. :) My dad especially liked the imam with "Kashmir" as his ringtone. It's nice to have a movie like this for us after years of shit like "Expelled" and "Jesus Camp" catering to the other side. Keep on satirizin'. It's much appreciated.
Bret - I will write to you this one more time because I saw your post after mine and I can see why you would write from the perspective you write. However, that person, was a separate type of sick person, "a pedophile, child molester" and he should not be the model for all gay people living today. Now, I don't know the "militant type gays" Lena and Janice are talking about, but the gays that have worshipped with us now and in the past are committed couples that have been together 20+ years, are embarrassed by the "flamboyant types" that gather for gay pride parades because they help perpetuate the stereotype they are fighting to eliminate. Most of the ones I've known and have become friends with are almost boring in their lifestyle if they weren't gay. They just want to be left alone. To Lena and Janice: You better bone up on the scientific research, new studies have proven it is genetic and that it will happen to about 10-15% of the population. Yes, they are God's creations but not all of us will be created with a gene or disposition of attraction to the same sex. That is ludicrous. It is time to open your minds. Why would anyone in their right mind, choose a lifestyle where you would get bullied, discriminated against and treated like a second class citizen.
Bret - The reason I was hard on you earlier is that all your postings seemed harsh and judgmental in tone, I didn't sense any love or compassion in your postings and that is Christ's ultimate commandment to his followers in the New Testament!
"To Love your God with all your heart soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself!" Simple and straightforward. This is sometimes called the "11th Commandment"! No commandment to judge your fellow man. All this judgment and anger between different Christian forms of worship continues to divide us and only serves to drive people away that need Christ in their lives. Instead of receiving acceptance and compassion, they receive judgment,ridicule and banishment!! That is no way to treat God's children!!
My goodness, I hope Smokey doesn't hang around with a mouth like that. He's a good reason to keep faith. (smile) I hate to think Bill attracts the wrong crowd. (LOL)
Anyway, to explore the Job incident again Lena. I understand that perhaps Lot considered himself protecting the holy men of God from the would be violators, but being that the men came to destroy the city, why did Lot not ask them to reduce the men to rubble? Or was he not able to think under from the stress of trying to deal with the mob? Apparently the angels seeing his dilemma pulled him inside and blinded the mobsters. Things like this intrigue me when the Bible tells us these events and leaves us to wonder so much. I guess that why I like the Bible for it makes me think deeply about these things.
I guess when Lot comes back in the resurrection we can ask him about what he went through and why he made that statement. Anyway, I see a lot of backlash against Christians on the issue of homosexuality but I don't see the supporter of gays denouncing their behavior disturbing Church services and such, but maybe they are, I'm not sure.
Craig
Thanx for replying. I am sorry if I came off as judgemental. I don't mean to sound that way. It is just that I feel the Bible's principles should be enforced more strictly (without violating peoples rights ofcourse).
I think that there is a level of preaching that can be done in order to really move individuals instead of watering down God's message (no disrespect intended).
God is the one who truly wants people to change, and I think the Bible properly illustrates the intensity of God's desires.
And also a clarification (I don't mean to draw attention to myself)
The boy who was my babysitter, was probably only 13 or 14 years old himself. Being that young, I don't doubt that he probably experienced the same when he was a young child.
This is the problem that faces America. A lot of the boys and girls who just know at a certain age that they are gay, were "coerced" into feeling that way.
There is a tacit underculture that is alive and quite active among all types of peopele: kissing cousins and other relatives, babysitters and daycares, schoolmates, even the church!
I have often felt that all people can feel gay too! I don't know if I am right but...God created both men and women beautiful.
It is only natural that you could see beauty in your own sex and make improper associations.
But homosexual behavior is a little bit of nature and nurture.
We all have the tendency to gravitate towards unhealthy and unChristian behavior already.
Anyone can and will be moved "however their hearts desire".
I have done a lot of deep thinking on the subject and I have come to this conclusion (at least about myself):
A childs brain is a very malleable thing. Just like the way children are miraculously able to pick up on whatever language happens to be spoken to them, so it is with sexual orientation.
Once the childs brain makes the connection and those neurons remember, the behavior is able to enhance itself through trial and error--experience.
These experiences can go either way, and the child can "learn" how to be gay or bi or straight, depending on his or her circumstances.
That's why gay boys and girls may walk and talk a certain way; through trial and error and also references the person is able to establish "self" and advertise.
There is also the phenomena of gender associations; that one truly puzzles me.
However, in my case, once I had made the connection that homosexuality was wrong( I was raised Christian with vigorous Bible study from an early age) I immediatly associated my feelings with something evil.
I had patterns of thinking that began to clash and struggle with eachother. I relate this to what the Bible teaches about the Law and God:
"Those who first learned the law learned that they had already sinned" and "God scourges all those who would become a son to him" er something like that.
To Craig
Yes we are to love sinners, but we are also to hate sin. “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8
I was a complete sinner when I came to Jesus. My lifestyle was totally ungodly. Jesus still loved me and saved me. But I didn’t stay in that lifestyle. I repented which means I turned away from my old life. A few months after I got saved I was on the verge to commit fornication. Somebody I had just met and wanted to witness to tricked me and I almost fell for it. God gave me an open eye vision to save me from this situation. I saw what seemed to be the courtyard to hell. It was a horrible, hopeless, dark place where all you could hear were wining and moaning. I saw people with their hoods on, and I couldn’t see their faces, instead there were just like a black, empty nothing . The agony and the pain in this place were indescribable. I just sat up and shouted to God to take this vision away from me. While it was going on I couldn’t see the room I was in, just this vision. It finally went away and I asked the person to leave and get away from me. I was never tempted again in this area.
There is a battle for our souls. I was lucky the way God led me to a very strong, bible based church where the pastors preached the truth, and nothing but the truth. The bible says that we cannot have faith if we don’t hear. It sounds to me that you are in a very liberal church that doesn’t preach deliverance from sin. If it’s not preached, it’s not going to happen. Just take smoking as an example. I believe it’s wrong because it destroys our bodies. I was delivered from smoking because I heard that I could be delivered. I also struggled with it because God delivered me right away when I was saved, but I kept on going to my old waterholes the first 6 months, (witnessing), and I played with it and got really stuck. Not until four years later during prayer in my church where everybody including myself, was praying strong in tongues, did I hear myself saying nicotine spirit, and I SAW that spirit leave me, and I knew I was free. I had been prayed for many times during this time, and I had even tried to quit myself, but this time I was completely free with no withdrawal symptoms at all. Not a sweat, not a shake, nothing. Gone after 18 years!
Because of my belief in what the Bible teaches and Christian background I had the choice to either discard it's teachings about homosexuality or make a life change.
I couldn't have both and be truly happy. I tried that too. I think the Bible talks about when the Israelites were like that. They wanted to serve God and Baal, I think.
But, deeply internally I was still damning myself. My conscience.
So, now I have made the decision that I will wait on God to create a new me.
He has promised to make all things new and after he does away with this old diseased world, all who truly wish to serve him will be able to in marvelous peace and unity.
There will be no unfair distinctions between race, class, gender, or status!
Everyone will be happy with who they are and who God really is.
I so look forward to that time. When I ponder on it I am filled with joy and elated anticipation.
That's why I am able to be happy, even though I am different.
Thank you all for posting, and I hope and pray to see each of you in the grand new order!
My boyfriend and I saw it and thought it was hilarious and informative. I havent laughed out loud at a movie that much in ages. We had to drive to a movie theater out of the way to catch it though. I recommended it to all of my friends and family.
Keep up the good work Bill. It is truly an untapped discussion area that needs more media people with balls to explore it.
-Amy
PS. Im already going through 'real time' withdraw! Come back soon!
Craig what are "militant type gays"? I don't recall using that term. And there are homosexuals among our congregation but they remain celibate. I have a strong gene for the opposite sex but my love of God and his laws are stronger than not controlling my desires.
I also don't see where Bret is being unloving or uncompassionate in his opinions at all. To the contrary, it takes love to tell people what God's word says. Bret has not called anyone names or been condescending or belittling in any way or fashion. He posted several verses from the Bible to support God's views and God's views are what seem harsh and judgmental to you. I've seen rudeness and harshness from others in the forum because they hate the straightforwardness of God's word and don't want to hear the truth.
Loving God and neighbor means obeying God's laws against any forms of fornication as well.
Lena-
I know this is rather late but your response to MJ Socal really upset me. As someone who has been around for half a century I would think that at this point that you would understand humanity's need/want to constantly change. For years even back to the Romans Gayes & Lesbians have been around. This has and always will be a part of human nature, that up until the last 30 or so years has been hidden. Now that these people choose to step into the light and demand to be treated as equals, good Christians like yourself judge them as sinners who are trying to spread homosexuality. It has always been there Priests have been screwing each other since the church was created and they were told that God would be there only comfort. No one is asking you to like what they do or even who they are but to not allow them same rights as everyone else is WRONG! If you want to change the laws for Public schools and take teaching of marriage out then be my guest but to not allow people equal rights is wrong.
The thought that people are being seduced into being Gaye is ludicrous. No offense but if the hottest woman in the world tried to seduce me I would be repulsed. So it really only comes down to one line for men, do you like to suck dick or not, my bet is the majority of men would say no, with a few fake straighters having to think about it. And for women do you like to fondle someone else's boobs more than your own?
As for your Gaye friend who said it was just easier being with a man...unless he's fucking a woman behind his partners back he's gaye and liking it very much. At this point the only one forcing people to bow to there way of thinking are the Christians. So unless they tie you down and force you to watch them having sex, what they do or how they live there lives is none of your business.
for those of you who want to have mile long conversations back and forth and cut and paste bible stuff, you should really exchange emails and do it privately instead of taking up the whole bog. it sucks to have to click back 10 pages to find someone besides the same 3 people talking. be considerate please.
Check out my new site about Bill and soon about Religulous at prayforbillmaher.com
Amy, I think we've already been through this before. This seems to be a forum about how ridiculous religion is. If someone spoke badly about something or somebody you love or care about then perhaps you would want to make a defense. This is no less the case with people that care about God or their belief. Whether pro or con it's good to hear both sides of the issue.
What you do is - if there are certain people that post over and over, use your delete key and don't read those. Just read the posts of the new people or people you know don't quote the Bible. Many people here like to read what everyone has to say even if they don't agree including me. If people say the Bible says this or that and don't put the verse in the right context, I like to clear them up as best I can. A discussion about religion or God cannot exclude what God says in the Bible or the things Jesus and his disciples said or did in the Bible. Whatever people consider their beief or holy book whether Bible, Quran or other, it's always good to pay attention to at least try and understand why they believe as they do.
Being this is a free speech forum people can basically write or post whatever they wish. Unless the forum owners delete their posts or block their emails from posting, we're all stuck with each other thoughts and ideals.
To Binky
I realize that we can’t stop gays doing what they are doing. What I am against is that they want to influence everybody else to accept their lifestyle. And when I say accept, I mean approve. I can love a gay person with God’s love. It doesn’t mean that I sanction his way of living. As a Christian I’m surrounded by people who curse, drink, fornicate and think they’re living life. I’m not better than them, I have just received God’s salvation and I have been delivered from those kinds of sins. I’m not perfect and never will be, but God has changed my heart so I don’t desire what I used to desire. And everything God says is wrong is there for our benefit. He as a good Father wants the very best for us. He knows what will destroy our souls, what will eat our heart out. All His commands are for our own good. The further from God we live, the further from Love, (GOD is LOVE), the further from peace, (GOD is PEACE), the further from truth, (GOD is TRUTH). You can try and change that as much as you want but God will always win. You can’t win against God. He actually won victory for you through Jesus Christ. So that you can be free and have eternal life. You may not see that yourself but your language is very raw, full of sexual words. I think many gays live in sexual bondage. They talk about love, but it’s very much just about sex and lust and body parts. It’s sad; we are so much more than just a body. We are spirit, soul and body and we are not supposed to live a life where our bodies dictate our lives.
Lena, To my way of thinking, Love is Kindness, Peace is Tolerance and Truth is Perception. Your perception denies good, decent people the opportunity to live an authentic life, so that you can feel righteous. Well, as long as you feel good about the situation, never mind that 10's of thousands of your fellow Americans who mean no one any harm, and who contribute greatly to the success of our country feel like second class citizens. If your God is going to deny them entry into your heaven because of their sexual orientation, regardless of how charitable a life they live, then so be it. He's not going to allow anyone who doesn't believe Jesus is their savior into the kingdom, either, which equates to roughly 66% of the world's population. So, gay people and evidently the heterosexuals who support them, will have plenty of company of diverse, interesting, exotic people for whom they can through fabulous dinner parties in the afterlife! It's always entertained me that people of Faith are usually motivated by fear. Fear of anyone who thinks different or challenges their belifs, fear of the unknown and/or unexplainable. It must be so convenient that there's an answer to every question ever asked by any human in any circumstance right there in that Bible.
Lena-
They are not asking you to accept there lifestyle they are asking for the same rights as every other citizen of this country. The right to marry the person that they intend to stay with throughout there lives. If God is a peaceful, truthful, and loving FATHER as you say and he wants the best for his children, then wouldn't he want them to do and be what they want. Realistically would it be better for them to live an unhappy life that is a lie or for them to live full fruitful lives as homosexuals. I think that a loving father would want that for his children. I am not trying to change your perspective of GOD being Truth, Love and Peace as a human being you should accept that people are different and want different things and that no matter how much you dislike it they should still be given the same rights. As for your views of homosexuals being "very much just about sex and lust and body parts". That is a prejudicial statement, because until you have met every single one of those people and been able to judge them for yourself then that is an impossible statement for you to make. I could say all Born Again Christian's are sexually repressed, but that would be prejudicial as well. To deny your heart, spirit, and soul’s desire would be a greater sin in my book than anything that a man can do in a bedroom with a man.
My language maybe raw and very sexual at times but that is because I am trying to make a point. Just as the very mention of those words brings to your mind indecent and personal things, it’s because they are personal and relevant only to the people doing them. By opposing there right to get married you are basically in there bedroom telling them that they are wrong for doing and being what they are. This country’s government has a division of church and state, GOD shouldn’t play into it. Equal rights should be given to every citizen and GOD shouldn’t play into that either.
No MJ
You have it backwards. There is no afterlife except the life that God promises us will be ruled by rightuousness. There will be those who live in heaven and those who live on earth.
Regardless of where they live, God will be a very big part of everyones life.
One thing is true though. The Bible explains that most of the people living on Earth right now will die.
The Bible promises that there will be a Great slaughter of which we have never seen before and never will again.
It says that those slain by God will be from one end of the Earth clear to the other end.
So, motivated by love of neighbor, true Christians search diligently for all those who are rightly disposed for everlasting life. All those who are willing to acknowledge our God and Father and Creator.
Sadly, God already knows that most people will not bend their stubborn necks and pay obeisance to their King, Jesus Christ.
They are the ones who truly are stupid (the true since of the word), not learning from history. God has already destroyed the world as men knew it in their day many times.
Even after Armageddon, and the thousand year reign of Christ, the Bible foretells that it will happen again. But after that, never again.
For the people living then will have full knowledge of God, and will have been perfected through testing. They will pass the same test that Adam failed.
Out of all the people that have lived and died on this Earth, the vast majority will be those who are blessed by God to live eternally and to continually grow in knowledge of God and of themselves.
It will be a truly wonderful time.
So those in fear (respect) of God's authority have no need of morbid fear at all.
Bret, if they don't have any fear, why did they invest $20M to make sure Prop 8 passed? Surely, you don't deny that they fear gays having equal rights. That $20M could have done a lot of good towards any number of charitable causes in the name of Jesus (or Joseph Smith).
I don't care about how anyone spends their money.
It doesn't matter how the governments decide one way or another!
Nothing that they do concerns God at all!
They are all about perpetuating their own power, and so whichever way the wind blows will be how the people decide.
And the government will act.
The will of the people has nothing to do with God's decision about who will live and who will die.
Every single human government will end when Christ acts and the final unveiling takes place.
Everyone is only interested in themselves!
The politicians want to stay in power. The people want to be able to benefit themselves in some way. The athiests want to be able to enjoy themselves without listening to dogmatic speals. The rich merchants want to stay in business.
Everything is just business as usual.
Meanwhile God has appointed a little more patience for a few left who are will to take not of all the warning signs
and then the end comes.
Just as in Noahs day!
America is so selfish!
What about all the starving people!?
What about all those who are crushed! Caught in the crossfire of sensless warfare!?
What about the billions of people without a place to stay!?
Why does such insignificat crap always take the spotlight?
And yes MJ
Just look at how they spend 20 million dollars!
On some proposition designed to please a lot of "Christian" voters!
Look at how our nation decided to spend trillions of dollars we don't have!
Go off to war and kill more people!
That's all we know how to get right anyway, isn't that so?
I don't care what you say. In the last 100 years or so, the whole world has just lost its friggin mind!!
::DRAMATIZATION::
"Hey, I've got a great idea! Let's industrialize everything, so we can make everyone comfortable and a lot more rich!"
(Not even a century later)
"Say, what are we gonna do now that we've used up all the oil?"
"Oh Oh, I know! Let's bomb the hell out of the people who do have oil!, that'll solve everything!"
We (quasi young people) might not have been the ones who hung doom over everybody's head, but we sure are the ones who are gonna have to deal with it.
Bret-
Since we are all just waiting to die, I would like to pass my time slightly differently, namely without reading your spewing posts telling us how insignificant what we are debating is, because we are all going to die and only the good righteous will survive god's wrath. Seriously I heard you the first 50 times I know I am going to hell and you are ever so righteous as to be saved.
And they are afraid, they are afraid that if this gets through and that people will become more tolerant and then they will have no more lies to tell there congregation about how bad and horrible the outside world is.
But Brett there is no use debating this please just sit on your pulpit and wait for us all to go down so that you can yell "Told you I was right"
I don't mean to sound all gloom and doom, but there ARE bigger problems out there besides prop 8!
Who cares!
I care about all the really important stuff that everyone else wants to shelf for another day!
Alright Bret -
What are your top ten gripes that no one else wants to talk about? Let's hear it.
Hey Binky
Why don't you tell me about your top ten gripes?
Did I just make the top of your list?
I feel so...so...
Sorry Bret-
It takes more than sour wining to make my top ten list. And besides I would rather hear yours you seem to complain often enough that no one talks about it.
Good Compack!
And still no list....
Thats very astute of you, Binky, old buddy old pal!
I found the film to be brilliant.
Just brilliant.
Very well done.
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