Sunday, April 26, 2009

The GOP: divorced from reality

The Republican base is behaving like a guy who just got dumped by his wife.

If conservatives don't want to be seen as bitter people who cling to their guns and religion and anti-immigrant sentiments, they should stop being bitter and clinging to their guns, religion and anti-immigrant sentiments.

It's been a week now, and I still don't know what those "tea bag" protests were about. I saw signs protesting abortion, illegal immigrants, the bank bailout and that gay guy who's going to win "American Idol." But it wasn't tax day that made them crazy; it was election day. Because that's when Republicans became what they fear most: a minority.

The conservative base is absolutely apoplectic because, because ... well, nobody knows. They're mad as hell, and they're not going to take it anymore. Even though they're not quite sure what "it" is. But they know they're fed up with "it," and that "it" has got to stop.

Here are the big issues for normal people: the war, the economy, the environment, mending fences with our enemies and allies, and the rule of law.

And here's the list of Republican obsessions since President Obama took office: that his birth certificate is supposedly fake, he uses a teleprompter too much, he bowed to a Saudi guy, Europeans like him, he gives inappropriate gifts, his wife shamelessly flaunts her upper arms, and he shook hands with Hugo Chavez and slipped him the nuclear launch codes.

Do these sound like the concerns of a healthy, vibrant political party?

It's sad what's happened to the Republicans. They used to be the party of the big tent; now they're the party of the sideshow attraction, a socially awkward group of mostly white people who speak a language only they understand. Like Trekkies, but paranoid.

The GOP base is convinced that Obama is going to raise their taxes, which he just lowered. But, you say, "Bill, that's just the fringe of the Republican Party." No, it's not. The governor of Texas, Rick Perry, is not afraid to say publicly that thinking out loud about Texas seceding from the Union is appropriate considering that ... Obama wants to raise taxes 3% on 5% of the people? I'm not sure exactly what Perry's independent nation would look like, but I'm pretty sure it would be free of taxes and Planned Parenthood. And I would have to totally rethink my position on a border fence.

I know. It's not about what Obama's done. It's what he's planning. But you can't be sick and tired of something someone might do.

Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota recently said she fears that Obama will build "reeducation" camps to indoctrinate young people. But Obama hasn't made any moves toward taking anyone's guns, and with money as tight as it is, the last thing the president wants to do is run a camp where he has to shelter and feed a bunch of fat, angry white people.

Look, I get it, "real America." After an eight-year run of controlling the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court, this latest election has you feeling like a rejected husband. You've come home to find your things out on the front lawn -- or at least more things than you usually keep out on the front lawn. You're not ready to let go, but the country you love is moving on. And now you want to call it a whore and key its car.

That's what you are, the bitter divorced guy whose country has left him -- obsessing over it, haranguing it, blubbering one minute about how much you love it and vowing the next that if you cannot have it, nobody will.

But it's been almost 100 days, and your country is not coming back to you. She's found somebody new. And it's a black guy.

The healthy thing to do is to just get past it and learn to cherish the memories. You'll always have New Orleans and Abu Ghraib.

And if today's conservatives are insulted by this, because they feel they're better than the people who have the microphone in their party, then I say to them what I would say to moderate Muslims: Denounce your radicals. To paraphrase George W. Bush, either you're with them or you're embarrassed by them.

The thing that you people out of power have to remember is that the people in power are not secretly plotting against you. They don't need to. They already beat you in public.

-Bill Maher

Published April 24 2009 The Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-maher24-2009apr24,0,927819.story



272 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 272 of 272
Crusader said...

By the way, I'm proud to be most of those things you called me. Because you're stupid pin brain can't comprehend shades of gray. You wanna pigeonhole my ideals, I'll gladly fall on the side of white pride bitch!

ZenGrouch said...

"So eat a dick you fucking irrelevant faggot. You fucking arrogant moron. Get a fucking life"...

Wait a minute...

Didn't you claim that Mr. Maher hates white people?

THEN you say all of the above about me, and I'm white...

...ya' Nazi hypocrite

Crusader said...

You're a disgrace to our race you piece of shit. I'm done with you. Why are you talking to me?

ZenGrouch said...

"...By the way, I'm proud to be most of those things you called me...
...You wanna pigeonhole my ideals, I'll gladly fall on the side of white pride bitch!"
...

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but when cornered, you're saying that you dig in and hold on to your Nazi White Supremacist beliefs that much harder?

You're so weak, that you let outside influences/opinions determine your fearful little mindset?

Well, Nazi Germany couldn't have happened without so many scared little rats.

A bit of history that wasn't lost on Bush, Rove and the Republicunt party...

ZenGrouch said...

"You're a disgrace to our race you piece of shit. I'm done with you. Why are you talking to me?"...

What's that make now, like 8 or 10 times you announced that you're no longer talking to me...

I don't know if I can piss you off any more, but my wife is Oriental!

And the kicker is, she has no problem with being called Oriental!

She's from the fucking Orient! How does that make her a rug?!

Anyway, we've dealt with punk fucks like you, dressed up in their fashionable jack boots, yelling Nazi crap...

They ran like the pussies they and you are, when I stood up to 'em with the desire to kill in my eyes.

Nomad said...

Mike,

I appreciate your opinion about Jatropha but they're planting it in the California desert. The business plan pro-forma they produced was alot better than your numbers.

If you're really that knowledgable about your project, it's mankind's answer to our energy problems, and you're the most educated about it, how come investors aren't following you around?

ZenGrouch said...

Cold FUSION?!

Damn...

Cold Fusion is as real as the Easter Bunny.

NOBODY with any scientific credibility, still backs Cold Fusion.

There isn't a reputable scientific journal that will even consider, reviewing a paper on Cold Fusion, much less publishing one.

There isn't a university in this country that is spending a PENNY on researching Cold Fusion.

When you claim that cold fusion has a future, it makes me believe that you don't know what you're talking about, or you DO know very well what you're talking about and are trying to suck up funds that might otherwise go to good use, in coming up with a solution other than petroleum.

Or I could be barking up the wrong tree, but take a look at scientific publications and university funding in this and any other country regarding taking Cold Fusion seriously.

mike m said...

Nomad,

Anybody can say anything they want about numbers. BP is doing it in Cali. Look at what they said about Prudhoe Bay 30 years ago. Fool me once...

It's still in the early development stage. I haven't even spoken to any investors yet. My lawyers are still working on the patents. That would be stupid of me to go to investors without a patent, don't you think? I'm not even sure I trust The DOE and NREL, and non-disclosure agreements, but I have to, for now. Trust me, the architects and engineers I have spoken to, say this is definitely worth trying especially when they see what is out there currently. And it's funny, it's so simple. People are going to be kicking themselves saying "why didn't I think of that?"
"Because you're a microbiologist, not an optical engineer, with both agriculture and construction backgrounds."

Look, I can appreciate small companies trying to make the best of a declining situation. I just can't stand oil companies trying to tell me we have enough oil to last "forever".

I'm not so sure about cold fusion. It works "sometimes", and nobody knows why. They think it might be in the way that palladium is manufactured. Palladium is a metal. Which means it is poly-crystalline. I assume it can be "grown" into a single crystals - like GE did with jet engine turbines. I don't know.

But regardless of wind or cold fusion or any electrical generation, it can't be transported without wires (although Tesla sure tried). Electric cars use batteries. Batteries eventually fail. Are they recyclable, or do we stick them in the landfill next to the one with all of the used tires? We are just going to have to come to grips with the fact that alternative energies are going to cost more. The free ride is almost over, in my opinion. You know, it's like that old Fram oil filter commercial, you can pay me now or you can pay me later.

As far as $5/gal for algae based biodiesel - I'm just not sure yet. Which is why my project is "pilot" scale. I think $5/gal biodiesel is reasonable, considering what petrol diesel was last summer. Crude ain't staying at 45-50/barrel. The Saudis say at least 75, probably higher.

Nomad said...

Zen,

You need to catch up with technology. Even 60 Minutes had a segment on cold fusion this last week. There's proof this time!

ZenGrouch said...

Nomad...

Just did some quick research to see if I was talking out of my ass, or what, regarding any new research that may have been done since the last time I dove into the subject.

OK, 60 Minutes did a story, so did FOX News...

Wake me up when something positive about Cold Fusion is published in ANY of the many Scientific Journals out there.

I think we're of a like mind on this subject, when it comes to wishing it were true.

Imagine a world with limitless nonpolluting power?

You can buy an air conditioner with a built in power supply that lasts a hundred years.

But it won't happen.

What could happen, if hydrogen fuel cell technology gets to where it needs to be, is that you can screw in a canister of liquid hydrogen into your TV and you don't need to plug it into the wall.

Or take that same canister and screw it into your car, and you're off and running.

But seriously, pseudoscientific writers will still be milking cold fusion for years to come.

mike m said...

You know, now that I think about it -
Are they producing palladium in single crystal form? I have some knowledge and experience growing optical crystals in a vacuum growth chamber (aluminum trioxide to be specific). And I know they do it with metals as well.

mike m said...

I'm going to email my old physics professor.

mike m said...

Nomad,

Know anything about this?

"A report by the American Lung Association says that biodiesel is important for keeping the air clean"



So why has the state of Texas banned the use of all blends of biodiesel, stating higher NOx emissions?

ZenGrouch said...

Mike...

OK, I know I'm approaching the line with this suggestion...

But, when you said your lawyer is "still working" on your patent, it made me think of many people I've known who got fucked out of a lot of bucks getting their patents.

I'm not telling you to do anything different, other than to either buy one of the books on patents from NOLO.com, or checking out your local library.

Friend of the family or not, if someone's making a buck off you securing your patent, they might be milking the heck out of you.

Learned a lot in Crystal City doing my patent search, talking to a few of the old timers there. Retired guys who knew the file system, picking up beer money from lawyers who turn around and charge their clients a fortune.

Getting enforceable patents aren't as complicated as they need to be.

Maybe do all the grunt work yourself, then hand the end result over to the attorney for review and suggestions.

mike m said...

Zen,

Has anyone done serious research into using isolated wind farms, where wind is plentiful, land is cheap and nobody's around to complain about all the dead birds, to produce hydrogen for use in fuel cell technology?


Take a vacation to Atlantic City. Five big beautiful turbines sitting in the bay right next to The Borgata.

mike m said...

Oh please, the fees are enough to kill you. Especially when you have more than one. My "family friend" hits me with a $500/month retainer for my business. It's ridiculous what these lawyers get away with around here. But, NJ has the second highest median income, so, I just pass along the expense to my clients. It really pisses me off that Worker's Comp costs me a fortune, because of the lawyers and their lawsuits. It's unavoidable, but, it can be managed.

ZenGrouch said...

10 or 20 turbines near the city isn't like the huge farms in the middle of nowhere.

Then if memory serves me, even Teddy Kennedy was opposed to putting a wind farm off the coast of Cape Cod.

They're like half way houses or low income housing. Just about everyone is for 'em, but nobody wants them in their neighborhood.

And to just produce electricity isn't enough. Demand goes up and down, while the output is determined by nature.

With hydrogen producing wind farms, the product is something you can store, and use when needed.

mike m said...

Plus... I had to use my lawyer to deal with my auto insurance company when a worker smashed one of my trucks.

mike m said...

Well, the ones in AC if they pick up the slack for just the casinos, that takes a lot of strain off of the grid. NJ will eventually have offshore turbines. The NJ DEP (Department of Enviromental Persecution I mean Protection) will make sure of that. PSE&G has plans in the works. Hydrogen is a tricky thing. Those storage cells, under the right conditions, could cause one hell of an explosion. It's unlikely, but possible. I think I remember seeing on the local news, a guy that uses wind power and hydrogen storage around here. It's really not necessary for a business or a homeowner in NJ to use H storage, because we have a reverse meter law.

ZenGrouch said...

When I was studying photography at Ohio University, I came up with what I thought was a great patentable idea. A 3-D lens for 2-D media.

In reality the idea sucked, but I was married to it, and found a patent company that assured me that this was the best thing since pussy was patented in the 1800's.

I kept sending them money, with no plan, just updates and requests for more money, until I was tapped out.

OK, then when I was importing the energy saving devices, which were VAV motor controls that would make single or three speed motors infinitely variable, to save energy in thermostatic applications. Instead of on or off, the thing removed only the amount of energy from the chiller unit to maintain the desired temperature to within a tenth of a degree. Allowing for constant dehumidification and a bunch of other good shit.

Anyway, the guys in Taiwan asked me to look into selling or marketing another U.S. patent they came across.

It was a split lock system improvement on the kind of locks used in bank safe deposit boxes. They aren't as easy to open with lock picks.

So, I'm kind of a genius at visualizing shit, and seeing how it works. Took me two minutes to see that this multipaged patent was worthless since the key would become hopelessly snagged in the lock, halfway through the process of unlocking the thing.

Whoever paid for this useless U.S. patent got fucked really hard, two or three kinds of ways.

Then when I accepted the fact that I was a failed businessman, I took a job with the company my wife worked for, as a salesman.

They imported lamps, from a factory the owners brother, owned and ran in China.

So, like two days into the job, my boss and owner of the L.A. based company showed me the patent he was working on.

It was a variation on a plasma lamp, they were already manufacturing.

Only this guy wanted to patent his design.

I tried talking him out of it, using the logic of, "Just make it and sell it!" Then if someone else copies it, move on to something else.

But NO! This guy that would visit periodically to pick up a check, had the dude convinced that he needed a patent to protect his genius idea.

Yeah, then the design...

He showed me close to a hundred drawings of his design, in various colors and whatnot, but the main theme of all the drawings was that they were unmistakeably cocklike.

OK, they weren't like huge dildos with balls, but they all looked like big electric dicks.

Maybe that was the idea, but I seriously doubt that anyone can copyright or patent the fucking cock! The motherfucker is in public domain by now.

What? Patent the dick then you own Michelangelo's David?!

So, I tell the guy who doesn't speak English as well as he let's on, with his Yeah, yeah! responses to everything.

So, judging by the change in his initial enthusiasm at my response, I surmised that he went home and asked his kids what a *Cock Lamp* was.

He wasn't all that enthused with my opinion of his patent the next day.

Up to that point, I'm telling him, "You can't patent a Penis! This is a cock lamp! What are you going to call it, Electric Fuck?" He's all, Yeah! Yeah!

I can't believe my business crashed and burned and this guy is still truckin' on?

WHAT THE FUCK!

Anonymous said...

zengrouch,

You are having fun but I think these idiots you are parrying with are paid Republican plants. They have as much bitterness & time on their hands as the recently unemployed, homeless, or adolescent losers. They are loyal to selling propaganda.

Nothing more.

ZenGrouch said...

Lens...

As Otter said in Animal house:

***No, no, no, don't think of it as work. The whole point is just to enjoy yourself.***

Anonymous said...

I hold patents. I don't hold grudges. Everyoe who crossed me, or tried, has crashed their lives at high speed leaving only dead bodies. My friends suspect me, but I never did anything except step out of their way.

Let it go. The dicks will get what they deserve; a long life knowing you fucked up - in W's case, in the eyes of the whole world, and similar mindfucks is a far worse thing than I could ever do.

And I did think very hard about it. The best revenge is to live well, so take care of yourself and these gnats won't bother you anymore.

However, if after spending your life doing your best to succeed you know that there is no possible happiness for you, please act on your impulses and take out some of these costly breeding mistakes.

Anonymous said...

I liked D-Day best. Whereabouts unknown

ZenGrouch said...

One of my favorite quotes made me wonder if Carl Rove was involved in the movie:

***You can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You fucked up - you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help.***

ZenGrouch said...

Here's your D-Day quote, that could very well have been stated this week, when the Republicunts decided to change their image...

***Hey, quit your blubberin'. When I get through with this baby you won't even recognize it!***

Anonymous said...

The mindset of every engineer@large.

ZenGrouch said...

Rush Limbaugh:

***Up to Raaaamming Speed!***

ZenGrouch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I live in awe of Moog & the sound engineers of the music industry since Fender electrified instruments.

Its interesting that you are riffing about crystals and resonance. Nick was on it, enjoying every moment.

ZenGrouch said...

"The mindset of every engineer@large."...

Yeah, back in the good old days when people knew what in the hell they were doing and felt accountable!

Today, it's:

**Yo' Yo' Yo' Hoss! Don't blame *that* on me! That there is definitely a software problem!***

or it's:

**MotherFUCKER! Don't be wasting my time with your shitty little hardware fuck ups!***

Anonymous said...

I have 'the knack'.

I don't see them as bitchy, I see them as frustrated as me when I can't solve a complex computation. I treat them as I did my grandmother.

And I don't hold a resentment. I am imposing change, evolution upon them, I disrupt the equilibrium, so I make sure everyone is on board.

I just make sure that the idjits don't get where they could cast a wrench into the works.

ZenGrouch said...

I see them as bitchy when I present them with a problem, and without any thought, they present me with an 'off the shelf' solution that has absolutely nothing to do with my problem, much less solving the mother fucker!

Like invading Iraq in response to 9-11?

That's some bitchy little girl shit, that is...

mike m said...

Zen,

There is a clothing manufacturer, in the US, one of the last, I forget which one. They came up with something along the lines of Gore-Tex or something; a new fabric. The owner had a choice. Either wait and patent the new fabric, or go into production. He made the wrong choice. He went into production and every cheap clothing manufacturer used his fabric.

Actually, in the DOE funding announcement, there are patent provisions. Not really sure what they mean, but the government could end up with patent rights. I actually haven't made a final decision about the patent attorney. Like I said, I pay my lead attorney a retainer anyway for my other business. He highly recommends using a patent attorney. Yes I probably could do most of the work myself. It can't be much harder than preparing a 25 page grant application narrative. At this point I'm just waiting to hear from the DOE before I make any final decisions. This way, I'll have a better idea if this patent attorney is just blowing smoke up my ass.

mike m said...

lens,

I find it interesting that Bob Moog never did play an instrument.

mike m said...

A friend of mine out in Frisco worked in a small music store called Robotspeak or something. Bunch of Berklee grads. They got to meet Moog just before he died. Had I known, I would have hitchhiked out there.

Anonymous said...

You have to work on your delivery. Try to see it their way.

This is the essence of all comm, 'The Word' as it Is: percepton is reality to the perceiver.

No matter how wrong you think they are, they tink dey's righteous. All you can do is offer to steer them right. The art is to teach them the truth without offending their enormous igorances.

You obviously have a greater scope of comprehension, if not experience. These people you oppose do not understand you; they can't.

So appreciate your gift, and be compassionate to those who don't have it.

You're going to need their support if you fail. Because you are able, your errors may affect lots of people.

Unlike the W stooges, who got rank & not reason.

You change the world first, then your reward will come. It may be money, it may be fame, hopefully you'll get it sooner rather than later.

The least you will get is the satisfaction. I had to give up all hope of compensation & recognition in order to have my gift be shared with the people who did recognize and pay me; the public. For each, our own challenge.

mike m said...

Berklee - the music school, not Berkley the university

Anonymous said...

Mike,

Moog invented it but Jimi played the shit out of it, demanding ever more.

The things I created, I am not the maestro of. I created things, when a Jimi comes along he plays the thing to its limits, and possibly beyond, giving me ideas beyond my original idea.

Thats real growth, not this bullshit "we must destroy nature before someone else does." banker insanity.

ZenGrouch said...

The flip side on that clothing manufacturer, is that he actually got his product on market.

If he would have waited, he'd have his patent, but maybe miss the boat for selling what he did. And the other manufacturers wouldn't have paid him any royalties anyway.

What he should have done was to go "Patent Pending" if he couldn't have waited on the actual patent.

When I was still struggling with my business, I found out that a branch of Honeywell in Australia was infringing on our patent.

I contacted the powers that be in Taichung, a couple tea sippin', seriously Buddhists brothers, and they were all happy that Honeywell thought our idea was good enough to steal.

I'm not that experienced with government grants, but I've heard that if they pay for it, they own it.

If you've ever seen it you're probably a fan of the PBS show 'Everyday Edisons.' Great show, so when I saw that they were having auditions in San Jose the next day, according to the Internet, I was juggling around 3 ideas and decided to roll with one.

When I filled out the online paperwork, I noted that I'd be giving up all rights to my idea, but would get a few sheckles so I was cool with what I looked at as free money, and signed the paperwork.

I went without sleep to make the drive from LA to San Jose to get there in time, but had a few laughs in line with a couple other would be inventors.

We were so fucking smug...

Anyway, they shot down my idea before my time was up, and I tried to pitch my second idea preventing parents from locking babies in hot cars, but they blew me off. Should have gone with that idea instead of the home mole monitor.

Yeah, when it was over and people were laughing at me for wanting to patent a computer attachment to take pictures of potential skin cancers, it did actually sound funny.

But what the fuck, I figured that with Bush in office people were paranoid enough for such a product that would catalog in a data base, all your kid's moles and shit.

Even adults can use the thing so they don't have to ask the guy in the next urinal, "Hey, does this look like cancer to you?"

Anonymous said...

by the way,

wolfram alpha is coming.

mike m said...

Well put. People like Keith Emerson had a lot to do with pushing Moog and the people at Yamaha. That's true give and take. It's something we seem to be lacking in this country anymore. At one time, we were the best. Now, it seems like all that "American ingenuity" goes into things like credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations.

ZenGrouch said...

Sorry lens...

I've tried to understand those so blinded by their desires, they knew not what they had, or had not...

It's so much easier now to just kick 'em in the balls and walk away.

What, I'm going to waste my time trying to understand Republicunt Nards?

Sorry... maybe in my next life.

mike m said...

Zen,

"I'm not that experienced with government grants, but I've heard that if they pay for it, they own it."

That's what it seemed like but, there were some provisions for individuals and small businesses. But see, that's why I need an experienced patent attorney.

ZenGrouch said...

Hendrix played a Moog?

I must have missed that...

mike m said...

No, it's a metaphor, right? Jimi Thing?

Anonymous said...

Zen

If I dig I'll pull up some web docs about Jimi hanging tight with his engineer and cooperatively making the sounds he made his guitars make.

I think music is the most awesome force in comm, even the stuff I don't.

I think electric church music was the target. We wanted it, they suppressed it with extreme force.

So you live in their world, not mine. Looking through the lens you are taught, you can't decide.

Create your own lens, then you don't depend on anyone at your core.

Good Luck.

mike m said...

Ahh, but Moog didn't really invent the synth, did he? It was a take on a Soviet proximity detector. No, that was the thing Jimmy Paige used in Song Remains... What do they call those things? Thevenin?

mike m said...

Holy shit! Ann Coulter is on Larry King with Joy Behar guest hosting. I swear she's a guy in drag. Ann that is.

Anonymous said...

Not to my knowledge, but whatever it was, what Moog made it created something beyond the imagination of everyone then, and most peeps now.

Thats genius.

mike m said...

He took the technology and turned into a musical instrument. But is it more creative than the ancient Greeks (Pythagoras et al) who actually took an octave and divided it into 12 equal parts creating what is now called the chromatic scale? Not knowing anything, of course, about frequency or logarithmic functions. Where people like that, now? Looking for Dark Matter?

Anonymous said...

Oh man, I've been missing mr. Zen's post over here!

He be fast little son of a gun!

Anonymous said...

mike m said...

Holy shit! Ann Coulter is on Larry King with Joy Behar guest hosting. I swear she's a guy in drag. Ann that is.



You're just jealous because you don't look that good plus, she is one of Bill's best friends so, I would be careful when dogging her.

He and her don't agree on things but, they "are" friends.


Come on Maher, you let people bash her like your bloggers do? If so, then you are no friend!

Unknown said...

Bill, I like your show, it's funny and informative. However, as an American Arab and son of parents born in Ramallah Palestine in the 1920's and 30's, your regular comments about the MiddleEast, in particular your support for Israel does not seem to indicate a willingness on your part to look at the whole situation from both perspectives, as if Pro Israeli propaganda is at work here instead of a more even handed approach. I wonder if you can elaborate on your position in more detail.

Here is what I believe; Israel has a right to exist and Palestine has a right to exist, the right to self determination and rule. The way I look at it is very simple, if my home, neighborhood, town was forceably taken from me, I would fight to get it back, wouldn't you?

I am student of history and facts, not propaganda are what drive my position. Fact: Over 700,000 indigenous people (Arabs, both Christians and Muslims) of British controlled Palestine were displaced either by fear or by force in a very short period of time, hence refugees which are scattered throughout the region. Fact: Jews were murdered by the millions by Nazi's and persecuted throughout the world for centuries by everyone. Fact: Israeli authorities routinely torture Palestinians. The point I am trying to make is that two wrongs don't make a right. What happened to European Jews is no excuse for Jews practicing cruelty towards others. Israel has right to exist, unfortunately it stole a lot of the land now called Israel. Real Justice is truly needed to fix this. I for one have always held out hope for a just, fair and peaceful solution, A Two State Solution but the right wing elements of the Israeli government and American supporters do not intend to make the hard choices and land sacrifices for lasting peace. The rational majority of the Palestinian and Israeli Peoples are human and want nothing more than to raise their children in a peaceful and productive society.

Israel's reluctance to give up land and stop the settlements is based on religion. Palestinians just want back what was lost to them, although right of return is not realistic, I know that the return of the complete West Bank and Gasa Strip (1967 border)will do just fine with additional monetary compensation for land and property lost in 1948. Remember, settlements are just a politically correct word for confiscation and the word terrorist is loosely used.

Menacham Begin used guerilla warfare/tactics to pursuade Britain to leave, he was never called a terrorist even though he and his group bombed the King David Hotel full of British soldiers.

I would appreciate your thoughts, thank you.

ZenGrouch said...

Basil...

Good luck using logic in an attempt to explain an very emotional situation.

In the United States, we've been taught that Israel is our friend, even though she spies on us on a regular basis, in a way that would get you executed if the tables were turned.

Israel feels that she doesn't need to pay any attention to U.N. Sanctions against her, and the U.S. backs that up, claiming the U.N. is irrelevant.

Unless of course we need the U.N.s backing on anything.

The second largest lobby in Washington, next only to the NRA, is the Pro-Israel lobby.

This works out quite well for Israel. We give her $3 BILLION a year to do with as she pleases, be it buy weapons from us or build mammoth fences on other people's property.

It doesn't matter to us, because Israel can do no wrong.

THEY'RE GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE! Hey, it's right there in the Bible if you don't believe me.

Another stickler in the United States, is that there is an endless supply of dumb fucks that don't know the difference in anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism!

So, if you say something like, "Well, maybe Israel shouldn't kill innocent children."

Be prepared to be called racist and an anti-Semite pig fucker.

America needs to be educated, however, it's unfortunate that some militants feel that they need to get our attention first with a two by four across the forehead, in the form of planes crashing into our buildings.

We also need to get our politicians back and turn them into Statesmen who aren't bought and sold, and have only one goal. And that goal is taking care of the AMERICAN FUCKING CITIZENS FIRST!!!

WE NEED TO ELIMINATE LOBBYS IN D.C.! Or, drastically change the rules, regarding buying politicians.

Crusader said...

I can't believe this, by I could not have said it better Zengrouch. Israel is a bane to America's existence. Pundits like Dick Morris want us to treat Israel like an extension of American territory, in the sense that, and attack on Israel is an attack on the United States. He doesn't fell that any other nation on the planet deserves these privileges. Only Israel gets to be protected with all the weight of the American military as if it were the US itself. Morris was infuriated that Hillary argued that not only should we protect Israel in case of Iranian aggression, but Jordan, the Saudis, Dubai and the rest of the Arab countries as well, as if it were an attack on our own soil. Morris went on to give a very logical argument why this is insane. He brought up a Cold War debate concerning what if the Russians attacked France, would we be willing to lose New York for Paris. Meaning, would we attack the Russians if they attacked France and thus lose our cities in the name of protecting France's losses. Many came to the conclusion that we weren't willing to make such sacrifices for another country, nor should we. Morris applies this logic to the Arab countries, saying "would we be willing to lose New York for Dubai?" Of course not. But, he then goes on to talk about how we should be willing to lose it for Tel Aviv. He gives the typical bullshit reasoning, that Israel is so important to our strategic goals. That's just not true. Israel is far less important to our goals than France was during the Cold War. He's just an unabashed Israeli nationalist who wants our people to die for his. Well, Dick, I'm not willing to lose New York for Tel Aviv, or Dubai, or any of those Middle Eastern Countries. Let them fight it out. In my opinion, they're all fuckin nuts. They're a bunch of high-strung whiners ready to start shit over nothing, who think way to much of themselves, are unabashed racial and religious nationalists while at the same time demonizing other people who behave remotely similar. This is a fact, Hitler based Nazism off Judaism - the concept of a chosen race, a chosen bloodline that must be kept pure, a belief that their race should rule the world. Your words showed the same passion I often have concerning this issue Zengrouch. Many would consider you to be Anti-Semitic, as many have demonized people like me be calling out the word nazi. There words reflect a lack of understanding for their opponents' arguments and a willingness to brush it all away with the new word for heretic: ie; a racist. Your last comment came across extremely nationalistic and, for lack of a better word, patriotic. So brava!

ZenGrouch said...

Crusader said:

"Well, Dick, I'm not willing to lose New York for Tel Aviv, or Dubai, or any of those Middle Eastern Countries. Let them fight it out. In my opinion, they're all fuckin nuts. They're a bunch of high-strung whiners ready to start shit over nothing, who think way to much of themselves, are unabashed racial and religious nationalists while at the same time demonizing other people who behave remotely similar."...

OK, you may be a Nazi, but I agree with you on this issue...

I say pull all of our troops and support out of the region, especially our financial support to Israel and the Saudi families, let them nuke each other to hell, then buy their radioactive oil from whoever is crazy enough to pull it out of the ground.

Or not... let them cloak on their oil when the shit hits the fan and they can't distribute it without our help.

Fuck those ass holes!

Unknown said...

Crusader,

It's difficult to read someone as lost in the wilderness as you. You're one of the unfortunate souls who mix a few facts with their own prejudices and call it reality. It's intellectually dishonest.

And for the record, I'm white, my wife is asian, and you're a tremendous moron. When the war you're so certain of does come, I won't be on your side and I keep my rifle clean.

Crusader said...

ChadO, don't fuckin' threaten me you bitch-ass faggot. If we ever met face-to-face I assure you I would stomp your ass in a one-one-one fair fight. Real tough guy huh, behind the computer. Go fuck yourself. I've laid my share of Asians. Your wife was probably one of them.

ZenGrouch said...

Crusader...

I don't think that many people are still reading this old topic.

Maybe you should go to the latest thread if you really insist on showing people how out of control nuts you are.

Unknown said...

Cause they've been lying to us now like they were lying to us then
They've been lying for themself, they've been lying for their friend
They're making matters worse by having it their way
And the cost is gonna hurt for us who have to pay


-Natalie Pa'apa'a " Comin Through "

I'm sorry it's for John Howard and not GW Bush

All of the people
All of those souls
And all of the children
Were they, they good for your gold?

And what of the soldiers
You call them your friend
But if we started all over
Would you kill them again?

GregZw said...

Bill,

The tea party movement is real and will have more impact than Democrats AND Republicans realize. I know the Republicans are trying to jump in front and claim they are leading the parade but that is not the case.

ACORN can send there cronies out to the rallies with their signs and banners touting all kinds of things but its only for media hype.

We the people are growing tired of the Republicans trying to take our money and give it to their cronies in the private sector and the Democrats trying to take our money and give it to their cronies in the public sector.

I suspect a constitutional convention will be necessary to get our freedoms and "balanced budget" back!

The movement has started and won't go away!

Crusader said...

I could not agree more

jo orilla said...

Hi Bill, I saw your Religulous documentary and you have plenty of questions about the Bible. You can try www.theoldpath.com or you can directly ask questions to Bro. Eli Soriano about anything and he will read the answer from the Bible. www.esoriano.wordpress.com
Just try him.

Dean Jackson said...

In 1997 NORAD said they insure, "Aircraft flying over our air space are monitored seven days a week, 24 hours a day."

In 2004 the Air Force contradictorily said, "Before 2001, 1st Air Force was charged with keeping an eye on the nation’s borders, usually looking for threats in the form of Russian aircraft skirting too close for comfort to the mainland. In those few hours, the command’s mission went from looking outward to looking inward."

See the 5 articles on NORAD at www.DNotice.org

Dean Jackson said...

In 1997 NORAD said they insure, "Aircraft flying over our air space are monitored seven days a week, 24 hours a day."

In 2004 the Air Force contradictorily said, "Before 2001, 1st Air Force was charged with keeping an eye on the nation’s borders, usually looking for threats in the form of Russian aircraft skirting too close for comfort to the mainland. In those few hours, the command’s mission went from looking outward to looking inward."

See the 5 articles on NORAD at www.DNotice.org

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