No matter how dumb, the people who are questioning whether Obama was born in the U.S. could eventually cause real problems.
By Bill Maher
July 31, 2009
Never underestimate the ability of a tiny fringe group of losers to ruin everything.
For the last couple of weeks, we've all been laughing heartily at the wacky antics of the "birthers" -- the far-right goofballs who claim Barack Obama wasn't really born in Hawaii and therefore the job of president goes to the runner-up, former Miss California Carrie Prejean.
Also, when Obama was sworn in as president, he forgot to give his answer in the form of a question.
And yet, every week, the chorus of conservatives demanding to see his birth certificate grows. It's like they're the Cambridge police, Obama's in his house -- the White House -- and they need to see some ID.
And there's nothing anyone can do to convince these folks. You could hand them, in person, the original birth certificate and have a video of Obama emerging from the womb with Don Ho singing in the background ... and they still wouldn't believe it.
Which raises the question: Why, in this country, is it always the religious right that won't take anything on faith?
So far, the reaction from Democrats is to laugh this off, and I understand why. If you seriously believe that President Obama is an African sleeper spy, get out of your chat room and have your house tested for lead.
But we live in America, and in America, if you don't immediately kill arrant nonsense, no matter how ridiculous, it can grow and thrive and eventually take over, like crab grass or reality shows about fat people.
This flap might be a deluded right-wing obsession that is a total waste of time, but so was Whitewater, and look where that ended up. A handful of Republican operatives, enraged at Bill Clinton's unprecedented economic growth and budget surpluses, found a woman named Paula Jones, which led to a woman named Monica Lewinsky, which gave me enough material to eventually be able to buy a big house in Bel-Air. Which I'm still conflicted about.
More recently we had the Swift Boat allegations against John Kerry, in which Kerry was accused of volunteering to serve in Vietnam so he could jump in front of a bullet so he could get a medal and then throw it away to satisfy his urge to insult real Americans. This was so stupid that Kerry refused to even discuss it.
And we all know how well that worked out.
And once these stories get out there, they're hard to stamp out because our media do such a lousy job of speaking truth to stupid. Vietnam, Iraq and the Spanish-American War were all sold on lies that were unchallenged or even abetted by the media. Clinton got impeached and Kerry got destroyed in large part because the media didn't have the guts to say, "This is nonsense."
Lou Dobbs has been saying recently that people are asking a lot of questions about the birth certificate. Yes, the same people who want to know where the sun goes at night.
And Lou, you're their new king.
That's why it's so important that we the few, the proud, the reality-based attack this stuff before it has a chance to fester and spread. This isn't a case of Democrats versus Republicans. It's sentient beings versus the lizard people, and it is to them I offer this deal: I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma.
Los Angeles Times Op-Ed July 31,2009
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-maher31-2009jul31,0,622151.story
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117 comments:
Hit the nail on the head as usual Bill. I am so glad to be a Canadian these days...
Wow, I'm shocked! I didn't realise this was actually an issue back in the US. I mean, I've heard bits about it, but it's SUCH arrant nonsense that the only reasonable response IS to laugh at the nutters. Seriously, Right-Wing Christians? THIS is the battle you want to fight? Seriously?
I believe now is the right time to say - I can no longer align myself with Those People in any way shape or form. Christians, good luck to you. I refuse to count myself a part of the church any longer.
Stop the birthers!
When people claim that Obama was born in Kenya or Alabama, just agree with 'em and then ask 'em what they plan on doing about it?
Encourage them at every step of the way, like convincing some nerd to take on the class bully, because he's in the right!
I mean, these idiots, I mean patriots, have the LAW ON THEIR SIDE FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!
I for one won't rest until these "Birthers" get to the bottom of this problem!
Either that, or realize that they are totally powerless, neutered, has been, nothings, who are pretty much good for nothing other than a good laugh...
Bill - great post, but you left out the creationists.
BRING IT ON!!!
Tell 'em we'll show 'em Obama's birth certificate, just as soon as they learn how to read Swahili!
*ILLEGALS IN DE' WHITE HOUSE!*
Lou and those whites just can't have a black guy as their president in the White House. They'll never let it rest.
"Never underestimate the ability of a tiny fringe group of losers to ruin everything."
What angers me most of all is that this is EXACTLY what the elite who run the campaigns (I'd honestly love to champion) do - and that is why they lose. I don't know which is more alarming, the stupidity of the fringe or the arrogance of the academic cream (which, yes - happens when you're self-serving, ego-pumping rhetoric goes nowhere but right back in your face.)
The Dems have been dismissive for far too long. It's time they act like the strong common-sense leaders of the people they're supposed to be - not some scattered group of high school debate squad geeks that get continuially bested by the punk 6th grader just who just wants to look cool to his group of knuckle-draggers.
Bill, the common sense you speak day in & day out never ceases to amaze me.
I can't add to anything.
Where does the sun go at night!!! Hahahahahahahaha
I agree, but unfortunately it is more than difficult to blow out a candle when you are standing 6 feet away, hands tied behind your back, already struggling to breathe....
I doubt most people could decipher the going on in politics or drama, and if they could or can already, i'm still unsure as to how one quells such a fire.
Its time for people to wake up and realize whats important like the fact that 40 million plus are without health care that most kids are twice the size they were 20 years ago that the national debt has skyrocketed. open their mind to the idea of not legalizing something that we could legitimately justify taxing and make tons of money off of just be cause a certain religon/govermental party.. its hard to tell the difference anymore..Doesn't like it. Well there's alot i don't like the fact that one religion above all others doesnt have to pay taxes .. ive said my piece im finished
Twitter isn't sending some of my Tweets, such as:
@billmaher Stop 'em?! Naw... just agree with 'em, then watch their brains explode, when they realize they hadn't thought their plan through.
yeah stop bringing them up and giving them all this outrageous attention
great for ratings I guess
and bigger on liberal blogs
yeah it's really time to stop them
[roll eyes]
I think the American media plays a large responsibility in this ridiculous new religious right wing witch hunt. I wish that TV executives and journalists could add judgements and commentary to their reporting sometimes, as Lou Dobbs and other pundits do, but that's not going to happen.
What the media could do is Stop Covering This Story!
I've always secretly wished that local TV stations would stop covering gang killings, especially the gang-against-gang murders and shootouts. I think it sensationalizes these stories and glorifies the gang members actions. But it also sells the news.
Why can't the media have some sort of limits or checks and balances? Why can't the media executives make a decision to stop publicizing the preposterous, titillating or sensational stories just to sell news? What ever happened to those TV stations that tried to report more positive news?
In the end, it turns into a free speech issue, darn it.
Love your viewpoint. I'm a proud Canadian ... you know that big blue state without all the right wingers ;-)
Let's hope more people finally 'get' it!
Thank you Bill! It's so refreshing to hear your take - it's REAL :)
We can keep debating the birther issue or the birthers till the cows come home...NONE of it is giving me a fucking JOB! If we cared half as much about the REAL TROUBLES people are having we might have some solution by now. I've spent 10 months on unemployment and am SICK of it! Fuck the Birthers - Fuck the GOP - FUCK IT ALL till we get some JOBS!
"I've spent 10 months on unemployment and am SICK of it!"...
*YOU* get unemployment...
...and your COMPLAINING?!
You'll be looking back on that shit with fond memories, let me tell ya'!
Sing along with Eric Idle, Bill
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.
Great post!
Hell yes I'm complaining! I worked for 30 years as a printer and nowdays a printer is something you plug into a computer, not a Person. I don't want to live off the Government Tit like a lot of people I know would - it's just not in my DNA I suppose. I am going to be going back to school in August, at age 50, to learn Medical Coding, just so I won't have to worry about employment again. So yes - I DO want to get out of YOUR POCKETS and start a job - soon!
Actually:
1. The reaction from the Dems hasn't been to "laugh this off." In fact, the Dems/MSM have cranked up the smear machine on this issue. It's like they're fearful of something; perhaps it's not so much the cert as something else. For instance, even the NYT pointed out that BHO was being misleading about his past history: peekURL.com/zda839u
2. Regarding the media, they've consistently lied and misled about this issue, twisting themselves into knots trying to prove something that they say is cut-and-dried. See examples of that here. If anyone can present a grown-up, valid, intellectually honest, logical counter-argument to anything at that or the linked pages, let me know.
Right once again. Personally, I think these are some dangerous people and who knows what they will try next. They must really despise the fact that Obama is president and McCain isn't, but then again, they might not have been happy with McCain, either.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies."
-- Groucho Marx
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
What annoys me is that these incompetents lose other people's money running their campaigns and financial businesses into the ground and still get away with major loot.
"Some Pigs Are More Equal Than Others" - George Orwell, in Animal Farm... now you kids know where the term 'pigs' came from.
Would these wingnuts even be asking for a birth certificate if Obama was white and his father was from some European country?
Used to be the punishment for failure was failure.
common Bill that Sara Palin comment was not fair and you know it she isn't going to be able to go back and pass even a GED to get her diploma we know she currently doesn't have
Why did the Bush Administration’s Dept of Justice, the CIA and the FBI all THREE certify that Senator Obama was a US Citizen if he wasn’t? ALL THREE agencies, per the constitution, certified Senator Obams’s Federal Application to run in the Democratic Primary and begin a National fund raising Campaign. If he isn’t a US Citizen, we have some serious problem with the Bush Administration and those three agencies.
They know President Obama is a citizen but are using the Christian right to incite more hate with their blind followers who NEVER question anything they are told.
I agree, America is a nation of sheep who stray wherever the wind blows. It's been like that forever, so what can we do.
Like you, said the media as well as politicians are spineless. So what other recourse do we have...
Vote for Bill Maher in 2012!!!
Bill, I am just trying to get this comment to you after having some trouble trying to do so. I have watched your program for a few years but tonight is my last time. The so-called "birther" movement has been around since before the 2008 election! Even when President B.O. was recently in Africa, rulers there called him their "native son". Why would they do this for a half black born in Hawaii??? As a 61 year old patriotic American, I, too, believe that he was born in Kenya. I have never been close to being a "right winger" as I have never voted! I believe JFK was our last good president. As the August 3 headline of "Time" states: "The Final Days of Bush and Cheney". That's what we are in with B.O. taking the flack for it. Bill, just why do YOU choose to be a part of it???
K. I'm writing this comment before reading this article and without knowing every detail of this situation. But with all the crap candidates dig up about each other during a campaign, one could not confirm Obama's origin of birth?vur
On Bill's show this week he jokingly spoke of Crowley, "There was one little awkward momemnt where he (Crowley) arrived at the White House, got out of the car and threw Obama the keys."
Compare these pictures.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/afterbeers_PS-0436.jpg
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/bush%20with%20Byrd.jpg
Obama, heedless of the infirmities of his friend and fellow victim of self-defined racial profiling, chuck's-n-jive's ahead on his own, while Sergeant Crowley, the sole class act in this trio, helps the handicapped Professor Gates.
Who is compassionate in the picture? Who is so shamlessly self-involved and arrogant that he is oblivious?
It doesn't matter where Obama was born, he deserves to be on the back of the bus!
...and the so-called birthers want you to sign a petition at their website. I guess no one told them Internet petitions are useless. By the way, I gave my first and last names as "Fuck" and "You" and the automated response addressed me by my first name in thanking me for my signing the petition.
It is to laugh.
Oh yeah - good ol' GWB..here's a much better picture of his real compassion: http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x124/doobius/G_W_B_Prince_Abdullah.jpg
SO Bill - explain this one to us!!
Since you think it is so crazy.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsus_1961_1.pdf
According to thte United States Vital Statistics of 1961. See page 231. (also posted below)
This Certificate that Obama is passing off as legitimate & everyone is swallowing hook, line and sinker...has the fathers race listed as "African"....NOW in 1961, this was NOT repeat NOT the term used.
Race and color
Births in the United States in 1961 are classified for
vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese,
Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian
(combined), and "other nonwhite."
The category "white" includes, in addition to persons
reported as "white," those reported as Mexican or Puerto
Rican. With one exception, a reported mixture of Negro with
any other race is included in the Negro group; other mixed
parentage is classified according to the race of the nonwhite
parent and mixtures of nonwhite races to the race of the
father. The exception refers to a mixture of Hawaiian and
any other race, which is classified as Part-Hawaiian.
In most tables a less detailed classification of "white" and
"nonwhite" is used.
YOu tell me if Obama is claiming this is legitimate - did someone magically just change the vital statistics of 1961?
I'd really really like an answer on this one, then perhaps you can shut all the "birthers" up.
I will say it right here and right now, I am a right wing Republican. I try to keep as middle as I can, but at the end of the day I will say I’m a Republican.
I’m not going to say that I fully believed this whole non-native born stuff when it came to Obama, but I can say easily that he didn’t help the situation in terms of creating it. He posted two different birth certificates on his own campaign website which was unusual, and also a third on a third party political website that was owned by associates of Obama. That frankly was weird, but again, I don’t take much stock in that type of stuff.
But you leftists, as much as you want to insult the rights who are pushing this campaign, you have to face the facts and know that you’re not much better. John McCain at the beginning of the election was forced to prove that he was a native born American because a group of leftists went after him about that. He had to go to court and prove his credentials. So why don’t you look at yourselves before you start judging those that think the same thing on the other side.
I find this article that was written here just comical. You think that you’re so much better and so superior because of actions that are done on the other side of the isle, but at the end of the day you’re no different. As much as you say this isn’t a case of left versus right, you’re showing that just because you’re writing about only the actions of one side.
Oh and just so you know, one of the men that was considered to be the biggest supporter in the fight to get Obama to show his birth certificate was Philip J. Berg, a lifelong Democrat, attorney, and former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania; a man that filed suits against President George W. Bush in actions that were taken during the 9/11 times. He was after Obama since before he was elected President.
Actually, I thought this issue was dead. Haven't heard anything about it for months. So the charge of why right-wingers continue to bring it up is laughable.
I'm actually kinda disappointed in you, Bill. I thought you realized that as long as the issue is "we vs. them" (that is left & right, Dems & Repubs), that our liberties will continue to be eroded.
Wake up and smell the oppression, Maher.
Although, I'm sure it's harder to make jokes when the front is united rather than splintered, eh? Keep those ratings up :thumbsup:
I need the Jul 31 quote about things getting out of control if we don't take care of it immediately. "Do you know any Mormons". GREAT! LOL Michael Ware busting into tears laughing there!
Ha ha - don't people know that one ONE PARENT needs to be a US Citizen for the offspring to also be American? Try again, but there's no way to stop the racists from keeping this up - it's just too ingrained in their DNA. I wish all the birthers would just own up to the fact of being racists, since we all know that's the REAL issue.
"Ha ha - don't people know that one ONE PARENT needs to be a US Citizen for the offspring to also be American?"
Ha ha - don't you know the law in the slightest! At the time his mother applied to be a citizen she had to be in the country for a certain amount of time, one of the possible claims was that she left the country to Kenya to have Obama.
Two of which being that again, it doesn't matter if you're a native born citizen or not if you become a citizen of a country that only allows singular citizenship like Kenya, which Obama would have had to become a citizen of at the time to go to school.
If you people are going to insult and laugh at a subject, why don't you actually do a bit of research and find out what they are claiming!
And racist!? What makes them racist!? Are you assuming because he's black that this is a black issue!? Wow, that's absolutely pathetic. I don't think they care at all that he's black, I think they care that he isn't American. That pretty much makes you racist for believing that that is the reason.
Did you know that 2012 will signal the start of a spiritual holocaust to wipe out all free-thinkers and awakened consciousnesses on Earth; all who remain will be trapped forever as purely physical drones to serve as the slaves of the Lizard People, who are themselves soulless and without divine consciousness?
Bill
I love your show. You are the most honest person on television. Why don't you invite Obama on your show. Dedicate the entire hour. At least Biden. Hell you know who would be fun, McCain, or the dummy who said health reform is going to kill senior citizens.
An idea I had to help solve the economic crisis. The people, companies, etc in the United States are allowed to declare bankruptcy. The debt is abolished. People don't have anything taken from them and they start new the next day. Whatever debt they incur is theirs from that new moment. Or we can just keep pumping billions into a worthless system and wait for our great grandchildren to pay off the national debt. Or legalize pot and tax the shit out of it. What is being proposed now is not working. You know how I know - I can show you first hand 200 people just in my community who don't have a job. It does take time, but how much time is going to take. Maybe people don't get that concept, but I know it is easy to say it is going to take time when you are making $200,000 a year.
Bill thank you because all anyone does is complain about obama. does no one realize that we just created one of the bigest stepping stones in history. I honestly wouldnt want a retard as VP i think that people need to stop worrying about these smaller issues that will solve nothing. Barack is president and people need to get over it or go in a corner and go fuck themselves because nothing will change it and another option leave the country and live in a communist community where they control all your shit. Love the show have seen every episode big fan and to all the hater FUCK YOU. Last thing what a joke about ASU not giving him an honory degree fuck haha i mean coming from a school that has about the accpetance rate of a community college that is a low blow. I dont think ASU BLACK PRESIDENT anywhere ever i mean thats an insult and ASU has to feel even dumber than they are already. Cant wait to get the responses to this
I have reached the point of no return. I am firmly convinced that we are now running on such levels of fear that we cannot solve the problem. Hell, I don't think we can even say for certain our behaviour is a problem. I do not think we can bring ourselves back from this ledge (which is entirely constructed from our own minds). We don't know how to say we don't know the answer. Most everyone still thinks they know how to solve it and yet when I ask anyone to map out the path to solution, they can't. It's all just faith at this point. It doesn't matter what you think, believe, can scientifically prove, or pray about. No one can admit that they don't know $%^&. It's the ultimate fear to say I don't know. Everyone wants to have an answer, some people want to be the hero, some want to be the anti-hero. But I am firmly convinced we're all just flying by the seat of our pants in almost complete darkness trying to make sense of what we've been born in to. The hatred and confusion just continues to proliferate. We can't tether ourselves to anything that seems to last or lead us to anything resembling our utopian visions. It seems like we're heading square at a suicidal episode just to see if we survive. Welcome to a religious experience wrapped inside a science experiment with the sole hypothesis of testing the boundaries of just what happens when we say screw it and swallow a %^&*load of prescription apocalypse. What I can't shake is this feeling, that we've all secretly made this decision cognitive of it's ramifications and we just can't admit to each other this weird, disturbing urge to see what happens when we passive aggressively throw a boomerang with a bomb attached. I mean, if we really cared wouldn't we have stopped it by now? I just don't know. I don't %^&*ing know.
Let them all exercise their right to free speech! Each time a member of Congress or the Senate is forced to make one of their dimwitted statements on this subject, it clearly reveals that the Republican party has not even TWO BRAIN CELLS RUBBING TOGETHER IN INTELLIGENT THOUGHT . . . . absolutely WONDERFUL for elections coming up in Virginia! We can oust more goobers!!!!
It doesn't help to resort to name-calling or to lower ourselves to their level. Then you just have two groups lobbing insults at each other. We need to go in from a dignified angle.
SO Bill - explain this one to us!!
Since you think it is so crazy.
I cannot get a straight answer when this fact is presented
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsus_1961_1.pdf
According to thte United States Vital Statistics of 1961. See page 231. (also posted below)
This Certificate that Obama is passing off as legitimate & everyone is swallowing hook, line and sinker...has the fathers race listed as "African"....NOW in 1961,this was NOT repeat NOT the term used. READ
Race and color
Births in the United States in 1961are classified for vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese,
Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian (combined), and "other nonwhite."
The category "white" includes, in addition to persons
reported as "white," those reported as Mexican or Puerto
Rican. With one exception, a reported mixture of Negro with
any other race is included in the Negro group; other mixed
parentage is classified according to the race of the nonwhite
parent and mixtures of nonwhite races to the race of the
father. The exception refers to a mixture of Hawaiian and
any other race, which is classified as Part-Hawaiian.
In most tables a less detailed classification of "white" and
"nonwhite" is used.
)()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
You tell me if Obama is claiming this is legitimate - did someone go back and magically just change the vital statistics categories of 1961?
This diversion is being purposely created so as to take the focus of his raping of the country
some racist people will never get over having a black man for a president. They must set around day and night for 200 days now pissed off.
I should've known, when all else fails, throw the race card. I see that those who believe the 'birther' are incorrect, can only come up with a racist comment (I suppose this will never change)
I don't care if he is green. I care about our Constitution. Bottom Line. Anyone who says this is a stupid battle to fight, must not care about our Constitution at all.
The very fact that he is not a Natural Born Citizen makes all that he is doing null & void since he is not qualified to be POTUS. As I posted earlier, check the facts, it's so easy to see how he intentionally misled the public. He still works for the people at this point & if we demand a birth certificate he should very well produce one.
Well let's go back to the Constitutionality of the Patriot Act, and the complete shredding of the Constitution that WE allowed over the past 8 years or so - if we start there then fine...
IF this issue were about the Patriot Act, we would, however, it is not.
Don't distract from the issue at hand. This is not about the Patriot Act.
This is about the eligibility requirements for the POTUS. That is pretty cut & dried.
Now, kindly reference the post regarding the manufactured Certificate of Live Birth presented by Obama, then reference the link to the 1961 United States Dept of Vital Statistics. Follow reading directions, do the comparison & tell me how any rational thinking person could actually then believe that this is in fact a legitimate piece of paper, but more importantly why it was produced and given to the public as a genuine article.
Now I'm not saying that I am now 100% convinced this is authentic...yet, but I am in the high 90's! (cut and paste into browser)
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2009/08/02/obama-kenyan-kenyan-birth-certificate-orly-taitz-smoking-gun-obama-not-natural-born-citizen-usurper-mombasa-kenya-birth-certificate/
Didn't these people learn about poor sportsmanship in high school? Because that is all this is - being sore losers. If this issue is so damned pressing, why was it not brought up in such an insistent way during the campaign season prior to the elections? These people on here with their bogus internet links and self-righteousness - just accept that fact that your President - our President - is just as much an American citizen as you are, andhe won the election fairly and squarely. Period. Take all of the passion that fuels your name-calling and hatred, and cure a disease with it or something.
Fact: Obama's mother was born in the United States and was an American citizen. If one parent is a citizen of the United States, the child is a US citizen. End of story.
Now let's move on and deal with health care.
cissie said...
Didn't these people learn about poor sportsmanship in high school? Because that is all this is - being sore losers. If this issue is so damned pressing, why was it not brought up in such an insistent way during the campaign season prior to the elections? These people on here with their bogus internet links and self-righteousness - just accept that fact that your President - our President - is just as much an American citizen as you are, andhe won the election fairly and squarely. Period. Take all of the passion that fuels your name-calling and hatred, and cure a disease with it or something.
---------------
Cissie
I have no hatred, name calling or anything of the sort. My sites are not bogus. One is the PDF file for the US Dept of Statistics of 1961. The other link is the one that Obama himself gave as his real certificate of live birth (COLB). Why won't you simply look at the evidence?
This issue WAS brought up during the campaign & it was dismissed as political posturing, which is totally not the case. Actually the only self righteousness I am seeing is those who are refusing to even acknowledge that the collective 'you' may have been deceived. Jokes are made in an attempt to distract from the issue. I mean honestly. I give the link that Obama himself had given, then I give the link that discredits the verbage on the COLB. It's not hard to see, unless you simply do not want to. This has nothing to do with being sore losers..this has to do with upholding the Constitution. How many times does that need to be re-interated before it is actually listened to?
cynthiadogmom said...
Fact: Obama's mother was born in the United States and was an American citizen. If one parent is a citizen of the United States, the child is a US citizen. End of story.
Now let's move on and deal with health care.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Actually that is not a totally correct statement, if she gave up her citizenship.
How else would Obama attend school in Jakarta Indonesia where only citizens of Indonesia are allowed to attend?
All we want is the birth certificate, not some made up Certificate of Live birth. For him to present that in the first place is a slap in the face to the American people.
Conservatives peddling this viewpoint like to claim that the proof for their accusations is that neither the White House nor the state of Hawaii will hold the actual birth certificate document up to a camera, but rather freely provide the media and enterprising citizens with a computer access to the copy of the document. The fact that copies of documents like birth certificates are are all that is ever made publicly available in most every state in the U.S. does not apparently matter. The debate should not be whether the "birthers" - a word which is not even listed in the dictionary - have a valid argument, but whether they should be given the opportunity to publicly push their generally discredited “controversy”, and if Republican lawmakers should actually be encouraging or even tolerating this behavior.
Barack Obama's American citizenship has been proven ad nauseum, so accept the fact that you can scrub as hard as you want - the black ain't comin' off. Let the man do the job he was elected to do, and focus your energy on doing your own little part to make the world a better place.
cissie said...
Conservatives peddling this viewpoint like to claim that the proof for their accusations is that neither the White House nor the state of Hawaii will hold the actual birth certificate document up to a camera, but rather freely provide the media and enterprising citizens with a computer access to the copy of the document. The fact that copies of documents like birth certificates are are all that is ever made publicly available in most every state in the U.S. does not apparently matter. The debate should not be whether the "birthers" - a word which is not even listed in the dictionary - have a valid argument, but whether they should be given the opportunity to publicly push their generally discredited “controversy”, and if Republican lawmakers should actually be encouraging or even tolerating this behavior.
Barack Obama's American citizenship has been proven ad nauseum, so accept the fact that you can scrub as hard as you want - the black ain't comin' off. Let the man do the job he was elected to do, and focus your energy on doing your own little part to make the world a better place.
-----------
Shame on you. You are bound and determined to make this about his skin color! That's pretty obvious. For the last time, this is NOT NOT NOT about the mans color - get that through your head. Is that the only retort you have?
He was more than willing to put up the fake COLB - yes he put it up, yes it is fake - but has spent millions avoiding showing the real one. So much for his transparency, although there are those of us who can see right through him.
Go blindly follow your leader, take everything he says as gospel, no matter what kind of evidence there is, question nothing, accept all - just like a good follower should. It is just that very attitude that got him elected, but in the meantime, you can put away your race card. There is really no point in even arguing or discussing with people who are so determined to make this about his race - which you mention in each of your posts. Enjoy your servitude
Does it matter if he was born in the United States? What defines a natural born citizen?
According to http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html, "The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States..." ..."the Constitution provides the framework for the law,...the law fills in the gaps."...Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth: "Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years;
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President."
The following site http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html lists Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, § 1401, Nationals and Citizens of United States at Birth in what appears to be its original text.
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date;
I had to delete much of the text on these 2 sites because you are limited to 4,096 characters but I amsure this can easily be checked on other site.
IF this information is true, and if his mother was a U.S. citizen who had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a period or periods totalling not less than 5 years, 2 of which were after attaining the age of 14 before the birth of Barack Obama, does that make him eligible to be President?
If Bill thinks us "birthers" are all a bunch of deluded conspiracy-driven whackos who are out to get Obama at any cost, wait until he sees the copy of Obama's official Kenyan birth certificate posted on World Net Daily. Who's the fringe loser now, Bill?
The Birthers will be stopped because the pen is mightier than the sword.
Why are responses being addressed to me by name on here? I am not conversing with any single person, rather just joining the debate. If someone feels spoken to, if a nerve has been reached, or if truth is a cold glass of water, that's really not my problem.
LAPhil said...[yada yada ad naseum]Obama's official Kenyan birth certificate posted on World Net Daily. Who's the fringe loser now, Bill?
_______________
YOU - LAPhil - really need to try better than WND - even the far-right wingnuts have their limits? Here's a handy rebuke from RELIABLE press sources. Enjoy your fear :-)
(See cissie we all do this to each other, while making a point to the whole other side in the process) :-)
http://www.theweek.com/article/index/99192/The_birthers_Obama_Kenyan_birth_certificate
Gotcha,Brother John, and thank you.
Wow, I even got a "Shame on you" on
here. Love a good finger-wagging.
First time voter in the USA and still support Obama but is disappointing to see the"losers" getting away with murder. This administration has to stand TALL and stop their craziness even if they have to change tactics and use fire against fire if necessary, Enough of being Mr. Nice Good Guy...
John:
You're going to believe what you want to believe, even after the truth appears right in front of your face. Just because it appeared on the WND website, the Kenyan birth certificate is no more suspect than the replica posted by Obama, in fact much less so. If you can prove it's not authentic I'll be first "birther" to admit I was wrong.
I agree with the 7/31 blither completely. But I still much ask this question; maybe it has been answered and I have not read it yet, if Obama wants to put this to rest (birthy issue) where is the birth certificate and why does the media publish it. The only way to satisify these groups (and shut them up) is to prove them wrong.
AS IF it hasn't been posted before, here is yet another link to the Factcheck.org article AND the BC! www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html - copy and paste that into your address bar to be more enlightened :-)
DIRECT LINK to Certificate of Live Birth! http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
As of today, Obama's birthday, Kenya has denied he was born there; the fake Kenyan birth certificate has been discredited; Hawaii has acknowledged his birth there, and arguments like "if both his parents aren't American citizens, neither is he" have been proven false. This issue smacks of griping by people struggling to explain why the man they voted for didn't win in November; "it must have been a trick. He couldn't have won fair and square, on his merits. Hey, maybe he's not an American."
Now the race is on to find someone who actually saw little Barak being born 48 years ago. Be prepared for that to become part of the issue: "if he REALLY was born in Hawaii, how come you can't produce a single person who saw it happen?"
It's more a question of "Why should we bother"? My Bible says "cast not your pearls before swine", and that's all we are doing - wasting time responding to racists, plain and simple. My LAST post on this thread.
Wait - IF there's nothing to this, then Obama only has to show his birth certificate - which he has NOT; much like your arguement has NOT pesented anything of value - Kerry WAS/IS a scumbag we are glad to learn the truth about and Clinton - well, suffice to say this country can never heal until he does jail time for his FELONY PERJURY. The highest ranking man in the country makes a mockery of the justice system and gets away scot free? THERE is the real problem - it was never about the sex in the oval office [although who among us wouldn't be fired instantly for such an action?] or about lying [he is a politician], it was about lying UNDER OATH-FELONY PERJURY. So, Obama, put up or get put out - Carrie Prejean would make a MUCH BETTER President than this idiot destroying our country!
What's racist about it, John?
Wait - IF there's nothing to this, then Obama only has to show his birth certificate - which he has NOT; much like your arguement has NOT pesented anything of value - Kerry WAS/IS a scumbag we are glad to learn the truth about and Clinton - well, suffice to say this country can never heal until he does jail time for his FELONY PERJURY. The highest ranking man in the country makes a mockery of the justice system and gets away scot free? THERE is the real problem - it was never about the sex in the oval office [although who among us wouldn't be fired instantly for such an action?] or about lying [he is a politician], it was about lying UNDER OATH-FELONY PERJURY. So, Obama, put up or get put out - Carrie Prejean would make a MUCH BETTER President than this idiot destroying our country!
It's racist because words like "African American", "Kenya", or "Black" have proven to be too unsettling, too exotic, and too unacceptable for white, (neo)conservatives. Our African American President clearly stirs up latent AND obvious racist sentiments, and what the "birthers" claim to be their intention, is simply a thinly veiled way of saying, "No Black. No Way". If the President's name was Barry O'Baugnessy, and he was a white man instead of black one, this whole discussion would not be happening. No one is demanding Vice President Biden, Sec. of State Clinton, or Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel to slap their birthing papers on the table, are they? And just because some noisy, pushy, belligerent, irrational group demands something, how does that entitle them to get it? There will be insistant resistance to the "birthers", and this whole issue will fizzle. Meantime, it might be worthwhile to read the book "All I Really Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten."
I'm embarrassed to have such morons as the birthers get such attention on the TV.
Bill, you are right about America being a country of dummies, for the most part.
Oh, well..... what can one woman do? If my congressman has a Town Hall Meeting I plan on going and will try to disrupt the disrupters! I haven't been arrested at a demonstration since the 70's. That is 1970, in case one of the dummies is reading this!
I'm very tired of all the obstructionists, obstructing.
Obstructing tyranny is truly a noble act.
I am disappointed that you are so naïve about the possibility of Obama not being a “natural born citizen” of the US. The people you had on your show 8-3-09 to represent the side of not having a legal birth certificate were a pathetic representation of the issue.
All of your guests stated “I Believe” that he was born in Hawaii. I believe that the American people have the right to “KNOW” if he is a natural born citizen of the United States. I also believe that he has something to hide about his birth, his term papers and his past. If there is no issue then “WHY” doesn’t he just put the questions to rest?
If you really want to know the truth about the issues try contacting this person.
Be the journalist that you are. Don’t be so set on “that’s the way I believe it to be”.
Philip J. Berg, Esquire
555 Andorra Glen Court #12
Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-2531
Cell (610) 662-3005
(610) 825-3134
(800) 993-PHIL [7445]
Fax (610) 834-7659
OPEN YOUR MIND TO CLOSE QUESTIONS
Bill, I saw your rant on youtube and wanted to come to your site to leave a comment.
I loved your show on network TV years ago but do not have cable so have "fallen out of touch", except checking your website occasionally.
this is the BEST COMMENTARY I have every heard. Best. Hilarious. Right on. Exactly.
I loathe their illogic. No one disputes Obama's Mom was a US Citizen. If so, where he was born should be MOOT. Wasn't McCain born abroad anyway? Why should their be interest in Obama's birth certificate...illogical and a double standard to say the least.
The majority of birthers do not understand where their particular hostility to Obama comes from I think. I wish they would ask themselves about it...It's clear they are treating him differently than they would and have any other president or Candidate. no one ever has had to go thru this...basically being accused on not only lying but lying but, really if you think of it, commiting an egregious crime of possibly falsely taking the office of the presidency.
I think it is subconcious racism that many may not be aware of. Obama feels "other" to them and not to be trusted or given the benefit of the doubt that they gave every white politician. I am a middle aged white woman, FYI
Laural, thank you for your psychoanalytic interpretation of why "birthers" think it matters where Obama was born. Your comment "No one disputes Obama's Mom was a US Citizen. If so, where he was born should be MOOT" is incorrect. I don't time to go into it for you right now, please do some research on your own.
Title 8, section 1401 of the US. Code:
"Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years;
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President."
This means it doesn't matter if Barack Obama was born in Kenya, Hawaii, or the moon. His mother, Ann Dunham. was born a US citizen to Stanley and Madelyn Dunham, both from Kansas (Augusta and El Dorado to be precise). Did she leave the U.S. before her 16th birthday? No? Well, then Barack Obama is a citizen, eligible to run for President, end of story. Whether he shows his birth certificate is 100% not related at all, and even if he WAS born in Kenya (which all records seem to disagree with) he would be eligible to be President.
You've left out some relevant details of this law. First of all, what you quoted was the law after it was amended in 1986. From 1952 to 1986 the law was as follows:
1952 The Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S. Code Section 1401 (b). (Section 301 of the Act).
"Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
"(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years."
Stanley Ann Dunham was 18 when Obama was born, which means she had only lived in the United States for 4 years after attaining the age of 18 and therefore would not have qualified as a citizen under the law which was in effect in 1961.
Sorry, I meant to say 4 years after attaining the age of 14, not after attaining the age of 18.
I had lived most of my life believing that most people were good people.
Until they came for me...
http://www.theledger.com/article/20090718/NEWS/907185025
Folks, I live in Oklahoma (for all the glory and shame) and endure the Inhofes and Coburns and freakin' retrograde national press our freakin' "representatives" can garner...
Where's Aum Shinrikyo when you REALLY need them? C'mon, there has to be a few Okie stragglers that escaped!?
Bill, per your point to the birthers issues being at root racist, you may have seen this article, but if you haven't, check it out. Everyone should. Makes some very interesting points.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/141587/racism_is_the_prime_cause_for_debunked_obama_birth_certificate_conspiracy_theory/?page=1
I don't recall McCain being asked to present his birth certificate while he was running for prez? Maybe the stone tablet it was chiseled on was just too heavy to carry around. Love your show, Bill...you bring sanity to this world of nut cases.
Hardy har, bestmommy. What are we, agists now? The reason McCain wasn't asked to show his birth certificate is that his citizenship was never in question since he had two citizen parents at the time of his birth. If you're still confused, go back and read the law.
In 1997 NORAD said they insure, "Aircraft flying over our air space are monitored seven days a week, 24 hours a day."
In 2004 the Air Force contradictorily said, "Before 2001, 1st Air Force was charged with keeping an eye on the nation’s borders, usually looking for threats in the form of Russian aircraft skirting too close for comfort to the mainland. In those few hours, the command’s mission went from looking outward to looking inward."
See the 5 articles on NORAD at www.DNotice.org
I want a t-shirt that says "I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school dipolma" ! If you're not going to offer one on your web site, can I make one, or will I get sued for copyright infringement. I would wear it (said t-shirt) EVERYWHERE.
I'm seriously thinking of making one at one of those t-shirt web sites.
Thomas, anything that stupid would make me question whether you have a high school diploma.
I've got to have a say, in response to these "birthers". Seems to me, and I rknow I may be wrong, (it's happened) That in a country where we can obtain every minute detail of our president getting a BJ from his intern, we can surely rely on having enough people in place with enough education and training to find proof (if there were any) of President Obama being born in another country. It's not as if he were applying for a job on a concrete crew and listed a few references on the back of an Arby's sack, and the person with the power to employ him, said "aah, he seems like a good enough guy, and he looks pretty strong, so we'll hire him". There is a process. Wouldn't you birthers think that if we can keep a young man from enlisting in the Marine Corps because he was busted with a joint in high school, that we can also find any proof of non citizenship, if there was any to find? Bigotry has morphed into so many forms over the years, and so many people spend so much time hiding behind false reasons to discriminate, that I'm afraid to get a haircut without consulting with TMZ.com. GEEEEZ people get a grip!
Dizzy:
You've got this whole thing backwards. How do you prove a negative? The point is, Obama has failed to come up with any positive proof that he is, in fact, a natural-born citizen of the United States and furthermore has spent approximately one million dollars in legal fees to continue to block his records, including his birth certificate and all of his college and law school transcripts, from being released. If he's not trying to hide anything then why all the secrecy?
I do not understand this entire debate. Even if Obama was born abroad (and he wasn't) I do not believe it would disqualify him for Presidency. As I understand it the Constitution states that he must be born with an American nationality and live 14 consecutive years in the USA. Both my kids were born abroad, and even have 2 other nationalities and are no less American for that. What about American service people abroad who give birth abroad, are their children not American citizens?
And, beyond this if everyone in this world don't "put down their flags" and realize that we are all in this together and if we don't clean up our acts, FAST, this world will not survive. I have lived in 6 different countries and travelled to many more, and we are all facing the same challenges. First and foremost corruption and the perpetuation of violence, and people are arguing over birth rights?!?! I don't get it.
I think that Babelosopher was on a great track in pointing out that folks have a hard time admitting that they just don't know something. I think however, it's not just about answering questions and having information. We're chasing our tails in trying to provide evidence (or gain bi-partisan support) and we need to make sure we don't fall into self-defeating patterns.
Giving up power gracefully is incredibly hard to do, as individuals and as groups. (GOP, I'm talking to YOU.) It doesn't help that we've been primed by eight nightmarish years and that so many of us are convinced that the end is nigh. If the GOP doesn't change it's course soon, it's death will become a reality with the next election. Facing mortality can bring out the worst in us and what better way to control our destiny than to self-destruct? The (co-dependent) identity of the Democratic Party is also at stake. Though there has been a seismic shift in power, they haven't accepted it. The Dems are having second and third thoughts as it faces not having it's abusive GOP partner around to make it feel self-righteous and to tell it what to do.
I think that's what's different here is a matter of post-Bush era CHANGE. We bought into Change to put Bush in the rearview mirror, but now what does it mean? Changes in self-identity are incredibly awkward, not to mention changes in one's perceived power, change in one's perceived ability to control their lives and feel secure. Our economic fiasco has screwed up everybody's plans in a big way and things really aren't looking up! It's all hard to accept and adjust to, especially if you can't get a handle on it and none of the adults you look to are providing reassurances and guidance, and letting you think it's all over because it's in THEIR interest that you don't envision a goal or have the nerve to fight for a solution.
What does it mean to no longer have old white guys in charge? We shouldn't have to start providing healthcare to minorities no matter how hard they work their asses off. Why wouldn't minorities want to take revenge with Death Panels now that they have the chance? Is what we're seeing also a bizarre new manifestation of White Guilt?
OMG, what happens if the Chinese shred Uncle Sam's American Express card? Illegals don't have American birth certificates, and since non-whites do illegal things... Blahdeblahdeblah.
Original issue: How to stop the Birthers? My hope lies in campaign reform. Get rid of the advantages of greedy, monied corporate interests and rebuild the leadership of the United States. The good leaders bring their constituents on board and keep them along for the ride.
Signing off now by hoping that more of my fellow Americans GROW A PAIR. A pair of FRONTAL LOBES, that is.
Stay vigilant, stay engaged!
: : SanDiegoChinaGirl : : xo
It is a justified question. There are empty spaces that suggest it should be asked by the people. Everything is worth questioning. Those who ask questions are in control of themselves - why is the left so scared of this question?
reverse phone search
Once upon a time such questions could not be ignored as this administration is doing; presidents would be impeached. Now, until Obama can and DOES produce PROOF that he is an American citizen, I say remove him from office and all who support him. And before some idiot plays the race card yet again, ANY excuse to get rid of this distructive man BEFORE he completely destroys the US is good enough for me; his policies alone are treason and he should be removed on that basis, but too many people want something for nothing and support his idiotic ideas.
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